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General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
The Problem With Gish 2.0
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<blockquote data-quote="The Crimson Binome" data-source="post: 6623263" data-attributes="member: 6775031"><p>I'm not sure that you're clear on your terms. In particular, you have very peculiar ideas regarding the concepts of "traps" and "feat taxes" and "RAW".</p><p></p><p>A single-classed Eldritch Knight can do things that neither a Champion nor any flavor of wizard can do, and it can do so within the scope of numbers that are meaningful within the game. That, alone, means it's not a trap. It never gets anywhere close to the incompetence of the 3.5 Eldritch Knight, thanks to Bounded Accuracy and unique class powers and increased access to ability boosts (coupled with the stat cap of 20).</p><p></p><p>There are no feat taxes, particularly since feats aren't even a required part of the game. If your particular variety of Gish isn't proficient in Constitution saves, then that will only ever matter on 10% to 30% of checks, which means less than once per combat unless you're incredibly reckless. It also means you're proficient in either Dexterity or Wisdom saves, instead, which means you're going to avoid a good chunk of those attacks which would otherwise require you to make a concentration check - or, in the case of Dex saves, you'll have a much <em>easier</em> check to make, when you take half damage from the attack.</p><p></p><p>I can <em>barely</em> conceive of a DM so blindly pig-headed as to say that you can't cast a somatic spell while wielding a greatsword. That really seems like something you should discuss with your DM, but even in that case, you can use a longsword with the Duelist style for what is arguably better damage.</p><p></p><p>You're making a big deal out of nothing. Gishes are fine in 5E.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Crimson Binome, post: 6623263, member: 6775031"] I'm not sure that you're clear on your terms. In particular, you have very peculiar ideas regarding the concepts of "traps" and "feat taxes" and "RAW". A single-classed Eldritch Knight can do things that neither a Champion nor any flavor of wizard can do, and it can do so within the scope of numbers that are meaningful within the game. That, alone, means it's not a trap. It never gets anywhere close to the incompetence of the 3.5 Eldritch Knight, thanks to Bounded Accuracy and unique class powers and increased access to ability boosts (coupled with the stat cap of 20). There are no feat taxes, particularly since feats aren't even a required part of the game. If your particular variety of Gish isn't proficient in Constitution saves, then that will only ever matter on 10% to 30% of checks, which means less than once per combat unless you're incredibly reckless. It also means you're proficient in either Dexterity or Wisdom saves, instead, which means you're going to avoid a good chunk of those attacks which would otherwise require you to make a concentration check - or, in the case of Dex saves, you'll have a much [I]easier[/I] check to make, when you take half damage from the attack. I can [I]barely[/I] conceive of a DM so blindly pig-headed as to say that you can't cast a somatic spell while wielding a greatsword. That really seems like something you should discuss with your DM, but even in that case, you can use a longsword with the Duelist style for what is arguably better damage. You're making a big deal out of nothing. Gishes are fine in 5E. [/QUOTE]
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