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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9449711" data-attributes="member: 93670">[USER=6896569]@Sulicius[/USER] mentioned a point about &quot;different system with different calibrations&quot; that you are skipping over &amp; it presents a critical problem with a foundational cornerstone of your entire post.&nbsp; The resourceless classes in &quot;the old days&quot; had a second tentpole of power that was far more of a factor than the fact that they were some flavor of &quot;resourceless&quot; &amp; we still see the impact of that tentpole all the way up to modern editions.&nbsp; Fighters had the most ability to use weapons, especially various flavors of swords that were often difficult to impossible for many other classes.&nbsp; Rogues used daggers because they had abilities to make those daggers worth using that other classes tended to lack.&nbsp; Barbarians tended to use stuff like 2handed axes while clerics used maces, lots of those still exist with flavorful abilities super relevant to them.&nbsp; Casters like the wizard could use crossbows &amp; a magic crossbow was awful for most classes but totally better than nonmagical ones when the situation didn't justify eating into their limited supply of wands &amp; scrolls.&nbsp; --NONE-- of that remains true &amp; there are multiple design choices working to ensure it can't matter without a cascade of houserule fixes...&nbsp; but the echo is still so obvious that people who started with 5e that it's even a frequently seen complaint that there aren't enough magic $SpecificNotSwords.&nbsp; Through providing those magic weapons &amp; other magical gear in justified group specific moderation stacked against monster math that required or expected it those &quot;resourceless&quot;classes had their primary tentpole of power.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 9449711, member: 93670"] [USER=6896569]@Sulicius[/USER] mentioned a point about "[I]different system [/I][B][I]with different calibrations[/I][/B][I]"[/I] that you are skipping over & it presents a critical problem with a foundational cornerstone of your entire post. The resourceless classes in "the old days" had a second tentpole of power that was far more of a factor than the fact that they were some flavor of "resourceless" & we still see the impact of that tentpole all the way up to modern editions. Fighters had the most ability to use weapons, especially various flavors of swords that were often difficult to impossible for many other classes. Rogues used daggers because they had abilities to make those daggers worth using that other classes tended to lack. Barbarians tended to use stuff like 2handed axes while clerics used maces, lots of those still exist with flavorful abilities super relevant to them. Casters like the wizard [I]could[/I] use crossbows & a magic crossbow was awful for most classes but totally better than nonmagical ones when the situation didn't justify eating into their limited supply of wands & scrolls. --NONE-- of that remains true & there are multiple design choices working to ensure it can't matter without a cascade of houserule fixes... but the echo is still so obvious that people who started with 5e that it's even a frequently seen complaint that there aren't enough magic $SpecificNotSwords. Through providing those magic weapons & other magical gear in justified group specific moderation stacked against monster math that [I]required[/I] or [I]expected[/I] it those "resourceless"classes had their primary tentpole of power. [/QUOTE]

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