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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 9508957" data-attributes="member: 6795602">The reason I no longer talk about other games with you unless I'm intimately familiar is because of exactly this kind of thing.&nbsp; You just denied a mechanic is meta, to the point of getting [USER=7025508]@Crimson Longinus[/USER] to agree with you, only to then share a scenario in which it absolutely is meta.&nbsp; Do you realize how frustrating that makes a conversation?Alternatively if you agree it's a metaphor then that metaphor has meaning that we just can't push to the side.&nbsp; In case it's not clear to you - this is the kind of statement that makes it seem you believe there is only one kind of third person authoring the character, even though we've already agreed the metaphor of 'first person immersion in character' is a different way to author the character than the other methods.I think the concept of a 1 to 1 relationship between the fiction as we intend to imagine it and the fiction as the mechanics dictate isn't that hard of a concept.&nbsp; If the problem is the word &quot;disassociated&quot; then call the absence of this 1 to 1 relationship whatever you want.&nbsp; The point is the existence vs absence of this 1 to 1 relationship.For what it's worth, I think this is a good illustration that it's mostly about the people and not the system.&nbsp; People have different experiences with different systems, and this is clearly seen through our different views on which system best allows for immersion.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 9508957, member: 6795602"] The reason I no longer talk about other games with you unless I'm intimately familiar is because of exactly this kind of thing. You just denied a mechanic is meta, to the point of getting [USER=7025508]@Crimson Longinus[/USER] to agree with you, only to then share a scenario in which it absolutely is meta. Do you realize how frustrating that makes a conversation? Alternatively if you agree it's a metaphor then that metaphor has meaning that we just can't push to the side. In case it's not clear to you - this is the kind of statement that makes it seem you believe there is only one kind of third person authoring the character, even though we've already agreed the metaphor of 'first person immersion in character' is a different way to author the character than the other methods. I think the concept of a 1 to 1 relationship between the fiction as we intend to imagine it and the fiction as the mechanics dictate isn't that hard of a concept. If the problem is the word "disassociated" then call the absence of this 1 to 1 relationship whatever you want. The point is the existence vs absence of this 1 to 1 relationship. For what it's worth, I think this is a good illustration that it's mostly about the people and not the system. People have different experiences with different systems, and this is clearly seen through our different views on which system best allows for immersion. [/QUOTE]

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