D&D General Deleted

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Deleted.

 

[cbwjm]

I know this is a + thread, but I think this might be a "you" problem. You've read literature that simply isn't associated with how people play DnD paladins and now your conflating the two as one and the same.

 

[Horwath]

you are reading too much into problem that isn't there.

D&D paladins have as much in common with crusaders as Zack Snyder's "300" is a documentary about the Battle of Thermopylae.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I know this is a + thread, but I think this might be a "you" problem. You've read literature that simply isn't associated with how people play DnD paladins and now your conflating the two as one and the same.

There are people on Reddit that repeatedly say “Deus Vult” anytime paladins are brought up. When paladins had the ability to detect evil at will, them being zealous murderhobos that kill anyone that detects as evil became a stereotype. Like I said, paladins are often depicted in armor based off the Knights Templar. According to Gygax, they’re supposed to kill all evil. Not to mention the existence of fallen paladins/oathbreakers that make deals with demons and that medieval root (the Knights Templar being accused of abandoning God and worshipping Baphomet).

If you don’t agree with the premise of the thread, you don’t have to engage.

 

[tetrasodium]

There might have been a reasonable concern about the name back in the 70s... but fantasy novels anime and video games have long since claimed & repackaged it as a trope born of d&d style fantasy world's

 

[cbwjm]

There are people on Reddit that repeatedly say “Deus Vult” anytime paladins are brought up. When paladins had the ability to detect evil at will, them being zealous murderhobos that kill anyone that detects as evil became a stereotype. Like I said, paladins are often depicted in armor based off the Knights Templar. According to Gygax, they’re supposed to kill all evil. Not to mention the existence of fallen paladins/oathbreakers that make deals with demons and that medieval root (the Knights Templar being accused of abandoning God and worshipping Baphomet).

If you don’t agree with the premise of the thread, you don’t have to engage.

The people on reddit are a minority, are you often playing in games where this sort of stuff comes up because I'm not, I've never seen one of these bloodthirsty paladins because the DnD version of a paladin doesn't have much in common with these medieval paladins that you're worried about, especially not the current version of DnD. It really does seem like you've read some literature that isn't really relevant to how paladins are typically played in DnD and are now making it seem like they represent this horrific evil when they really don't.

 

[fuindordm]

I think 5E gave us some good innovations around the Paladin archetype. Oath of the Ancients for more of a Green Knight/Avalon Knight vibe, Oath of Vengeance for... Batman(?). And lots of other suggested oaths in supplements.

The storytelling conceit of a Paladin is that in exchange for committing themselves wholly to a supernatural/moral cause, they get some divine power. Very similar to Warlocks in that regard. Also D&D has plenty of supernatural evil. Paladins can be devil hunters, demon hunters, undead hunters, and so on.

Come to think of it they make a better ranger than the ranger in that respect.

So if you want to get away from the traditional, AD&D-like paladin you can do pretty well by nixing the basic Oath (detect and smite "evil") and reinforcing some of the others. In fact, I agree with you that the farther we get from the "armored knight" archetype, the better the class becomes.

Cheers!

 

[Chaltab]

While I understand the need to avoid turning paladins into colonizers or racial holy warriors, I'm not sure your analysis is quite accurate. the original 'Paladins' as best I can tell are 12th century legendary figures placed in the 8th Century and primarily associated with battles in and around France. There's a story of them going to Jerusalem, though not to fight in the Crusades but to retrieve something stolen by a giant.

As for the other baggage, I think D&D has already been de-tangling itself from it for years. Gygax hasn't been in the picture since 1989 so his horrid opinions on alignment aren't terribly relevant. Furthermore, in 5E they're no longer required to be lawful good or even to serve a god. Their Divine Sense doesn't detect the alignment of mortal creatures, just the presence of extra-planar creatures. And since there are non-good celestials and non-evil undead and fiends in more recent books, it also doesn't actually reveal alignment at all, just creature type.

I'm sorry if this isn't quite + enough, but this is my best attempt to engage with the topic.

 

[RainOnTheSun]

It seems to me that your problem is the religious overtone, and there doesn't seem to be anything in the mechanics that would break down if you just took that out. Take the religion out of clerics, too, while you're at it, and leave the mechanical parts as they are. You'll have to invent a new context for them in the world, but it sounds like you want to do that anyway.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Sounds like the perfect pitch for a new campaign!

"All right, we're gonna repair the reputation of Paladins everywhere! Any suggestions?"
"A marketing slogan. You can't spell Paladin without Pal!"
"We could repaint old churches and temples to show us doing good!"
"Nothing raises morale like a pizza party! Let's do that!"