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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The problem with rogues.
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<blockquote data-quote="ExploderWizard" data-source="post: 6177320" data-attributes="member: 66434"><p>The original thief class was a solution in search of a problem. Any adventurer could sneak, search for traps, and so forth depending on circumstances and whatnot. Wearing clanky noisy armor made things more difficult but not impossible depending on the situation. Everyday adventurer functions were governed by everyday common sense. </p><p></p><p>Enter the thief. All of a sudden competent adventurers became bumbling boobs because a specialist had been created. Even though the thief's abilities were supposed to be above and beyond what every adventurer could still do, the common interpretation was that everyone else now sucked at this stuff so the thief could shine. </p><p></p><p>Things got even worse in 3E when, in addition to being specialist guy, the rogue became equal to or better than the fighter at fighting. This problem became worse in 4E with the rogue clearly designed as a damage dealing machine. </p><p></p><p>I find skill systems to be at odds with the archetype class system. The thief class is a perfect example of this. Archetypes need to be broad enough to accomodate multiple character types. Introducing skills, even class based ones, has the effect of not only defining what a particular class is good at, but also at the same time, defining what other classes <strong>cannot</strong> do. The more of these specialized classes you create, the narrow the range of characters will be. I much prefer a game with only a handful of classes than one with dozens of one trick pony options. </p><p></p><p>[Offical rant begins]</p><p>This problem, the one of exhaustive character options which lead to tightly focused builds, and over-specialization results in characters which excel in their niche, but ultimately due to lack of vesatility become boring rather quickly. The thief was the start of all that. </p><p>[end rant]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ExploderWizard, post: 6177320, member: 66434"] The original thief class was a solution in search of a problem. Any adventurer could sneak, search for traps, and so forth depending on circumstances and whatnot. Wearing clanky noisy armor made things more difficult but not impossible depending on the situation. Everyday adventurer functions were governed by everyday common sense. Enter the thief. All of a sudden competent adventurers became bumbling boobs because a specialist had been created. Even though the thief's abilities were supposed to be above and beyond what every adventurer could still do, the common interpretation was that everyone else now sucked at this stuff so the thief could shine. Things got even worse in 3E when, in addition to being specialist guy, the rogue became equal to or better than the fighter at fighting. This problem became worse in 4E with the rogue clearly designed as a damage dealing machine. I find skill systems to be at odds with the archetype class system. The thief class is a perfect example of this. Archetypes need to be broad enough to accomodate multiple character types. Introducing skills, even class based ones, has the effect of not only defining what a particular class is good at, but also at the same time, defining what other classes [B]cannot[/B] do. The more of these specialized classes you create, the narrow the range of characters will be. I much prefer a game with only a handful of classes than one with dozens of one trick pony options. [Offical rant begins] This problem, the one of exhaustive character options which lead to tightly focused builds, and over-specialization results in characters which excel in their niche, but ultimately due to lack of vesatility become boring rather quickly. The thief was the start of all that. [end rant] [/QUOTE]
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The problem with rogues.
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