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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Serge" data-source="post: 2111297" data-attributes="member: 4049">He continues to direct and write movies.  My point is that money in and of itself does not dictate success nor should it be perceived as a kind of success.  Batman and Robin and scores of other terrible films did well in the box office but are considered unmitigated failures by a fair number of people.  Conversely, there are films that most people -- even those of questionable intellect -- would view as good if not excellent films that did not become cultural phenomenons. And you continue to willfully warp my words with regards to Lucas' incompetence.  It's not his ability to market, conceptualize, or drive the film industry that's in question.  It's his ability to direct and write.pquote]Star Wars isn't a cultural phenomenon just because of the spectacle. Do not judge the trilogy by Empire. Empire is the odd one out, and doesn't really fit in with the rest, even if it IS my favorite. The strengths of Empire could not possibly be keeping Star Wars afloat now. The strengths of the originals couldn't be helping to generate the huge income of the prequels if they WERE horribly directed. People wouldn't go and see them IN HUGE NUMBERS.</blockquote>Two things.  First, this whole idea that Empire "doesn't fit in with the rest" is not only a cop out on your part, it only supports my point that Lucas -- who had the least to do with that film of all the SW films -- is an incompetent director and writer.  Second, I think it's precisely because of Empire that both ANH and RotJ did so well.  The last twenty minutes of that film forced people to go back and watch ANH with a different perspective and provided one of the best cliffhangers in cinema history.  Without that film, the franchise would not have done as well as it did (it would still have done well, but not as well).  The events in Empire are also what have driven folks to the prequels.  After learning tidbits about Vader in ANH (his betrayal of the Jedi order and his "murder" of Anakin Skywalker) and the revelation of precisely who Vader is in Empire, the desire to see how these things panned out is the driving force behind the prequels.  Hype is also a driving factor.  Most people with whom I've spoken were likewise expecting the same depth as Empire in the prequels.  The nature of the new trilogy implied that kind of depth.  Hell, the trailers implied that depth.  Lucas failed miserably to produce that, instead focusing and exceling in the technical/action and marketing aspects of the franchise at the expense of story and character.  Because he's an incompetent director and writer.Actually, it's not my problem.  It's your problem because you're resorting to a cop out.  Empire is the reason why the franchise did as well as it did.  It's what solidified the franchise as one of the best trilogies ever.  It's also a cop out because it reveals that you don't have faith in Lucas to create the kind of intensity, character development/progression, story-line, and so forth.  You are willing to accept his incompetence in these areas why saying "Oh, others are expecting too much so it's their fault not Lucas' since he clearly can't deliver."  If Empire is the "problem with Star Wars" and simultaneously the best part of Star Wars, it reflects that Lucas' relative lack of participation was the best thing for the franchise and a reflection of his incompetence as a director and writer.I think this is highly debatable and depends upon the movie/performance in question. Are you trying to pull a self-righteous stance here?  Really, I could just say that you're doing no different, but I think it goes without saying...  Except I just said it.  This is a good discussion; don't ruin it by getting petty.  I haven't accused you or the others here of wearing blinders or having a childish infatuation with Lucas because I don't believe that you do.  Rather I believe that you are supporting a position.  I respect that even if I vociferously disagree with it.  So, don't prove me wrong by acting like a child with these kinds of statements.  They're beneath you.So you say.  I doubt that the case.Of course, the interviews on these films are not biased in any way and the comments taken should be accepted at face value.   Right.And how do we know that someone hasn't gotten frustrated and left?  In a professional environment when you're dealing with contracts, this is possible and likely that folks aren't going to say anything once they leave.[/QUOTE]

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