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The Problem with Star Wars
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<blockquote data-quote="barsoomcore" data-source="post: 2115686" data-attributes="member: 812"><p>Okay, many people (you said you asked your sister, which counts as one in my book, but if it's actually many, that's fine).</p><p></p><p>Many people's subjective opinions don't magically turn into an objective opinion. They're just lots of subjective opinions. You can make objective statements about those opinions ("Lots of people love movie X"), but the opinions themselves remain subjective and capable of being wrong.</p><p></p><p>You claimed to have access to objective opinions about art. I find that a startling sort of claim and am trying to figure out what you meant by that.</p><p></p><p></p><p>And who's that?</p><p></p><p></p><p>What about it wouldn't make sense? I think it works great. I mean, I'm not the biggest <em>Full Metal Jacket</em> fan, but I don't see what would make that sequence meaningless.</p><p></p><p></p><p>In that, "I'm going to encourage your son to risk his life in a death-defying adventure," kind of way. I don't really disagree with you here, but you're putting a lot into the story that Lucas never did.</p><p></p><p></p><p>And she knew he was a Jedi how, exactly? Because he could do magic tricks?</p><p></p><p>Well, I don't know that I would let MY son go off with somebody who could do that. I find it easier to believe that Qui-Gon didn't give her a choice, even though I think I putting a lot into the story that Lucas never did, too.</p><p></p><p>Not for the fight scene at the beginning? Or the ones in the middle? Or for Mifune all the way through? And the guy they hide in the closet? And the old lady?</p><p></p><p>Come on, there's a MILLION reasons to watch <em>Sanjuro</em>. It's a great film, start to finish.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Don't really understand that.</p><p></p><p></p><p>See I just find it "stealing" more than "homage".</p><p></p><p>Somebody once said that the problem with Brian de Palma's movie <em>Red Planet</em> was that Hitchcock never made a movie about interplanetary travel. I think you could say that the problem with TPM is that Kurosawa never made a picture about trade disputes.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay, we can disagree on that.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not ripping them for what they are. That would be pointless. I'm ripping them for what they do poorly. And the moments around Anakin's mother's death is done poorly. It is TOO melodramatic. It is SO melodramatic that it's comical rather than tragic.</p><p></p><p></p><p>You have a habit of attacking arguments I never made. The final moments of <em>Star Wars</em> ARE tense, because you don't know HOW it's going to happen. That's a lesser form of tension, of course, and yeah, I think it's a problem in the film. It's supported, however, by the mythological strength of the moment, as well as the surprise of having Solo return to reaffirm our faith in people.</p><p></p><p>The ending of <em>Star Wars</em> is an affirmation of what has gone before.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually, I agree with you. Not much tension, and over quickly enough that that wasn't a problem. It was a "look how cool and tough Luke's gotten while he was away" kind of moment, which sets us up for the final battle with Jabba at the Sarlac pit.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, you'll notice none of the originals are on my list of perfect films. So, yes, I am. If that's relevant, let me know how.</p><p></p><p>Or does this mean your defense of Lucas is "He's as crappy as he's always been"? I wouldn't argue too vociferously against that. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="barsoomcore, post: 2115686, member: 812"] Okay, many people (you said you asked your sister, which counts as one in my book, but if it's actually many, that's fine). Many people's subjective opinions don't magically turn into an objective opinion. They're just lots of subjective opinions. You can make objective statements about those opinions ("Lots of people love movie X"), but the opinions themselves remain subjective and capable of being wrong. You claimed to have access to objective opinions about art. I find that a startling sort of claim and am trying to figure out what you meant by that. And who's that? What about it wouldn't make sense? I think it works great. I mean, I'm not the biggest [i]Full Metal Jacket[/i] fan, but I don't see what would make that sequence meaningless. In that, "I'm going to encourage your son to risk his life in a death-defying adventure," kind of way. I don't really disagree with you here, but you're putting a lot into the story that Lucas never did. And she knew he was a Jedi how, exactly? Because he could do magic tricks? Well, I don't know that I would let MY son go off with somebody who could do that. I find it easier to believe that Qui-Gon didn't give her a choice, even though I think I putting a lot into the story that Lucas never did, too. Not for the fight scene at the beginning? Or the ones in the middle? Or for Mifune all the way through? And the guy they hide in the closet? And the old lady? Come on, there's a MILLION reasons to watch [i]Sanjuro[/i]. It's a great film, start to finish. Don't really understand that. See I just find it "stealing" more than "homage". Somebody once said that the problem with Brian de Palma's movie [i]Red Planet[/i] was that Hitchcock never made a movie about interplanetary travel. I think you could say that the problem with TPM is that Kurosawa never made a picture about trade disputes. Okay, we can disagree on that. I'm not ripping them for what they are. That would be pointless. I'm ripping them for what they do poorly. And the moments around Anakin's mother's death is done poorly. It is TOO melodramatic. It is SO melodramatic that it's comical rather than tragic. You have a habit of attacking arguments I never made. The final moments of [i]Star Wars[/i] ARE tense, because you don't know HOW it's going to happen. That's a lesser form of tension, of course, and yeah, I think it's a problem in the film. It's supported, however, by the mythological strength of the moment, as well as the surprise of having Solo return to reaffirm our faith in people. The ending of [i]Star Wars[/i] is an affirmation of what has gone before. Actually, I agree with you. Not much tension, and over quickly enough that that wasn't a problem. It was a "look how cool and tough Luke's gotten while he was away" kind of moment, which sets us up for the final battle with Jabba at the Sarlac pit. Well, you'll notice none of the originals are on my list of perfect films. So, yes, I am. If that's relevant, let me know how. Or does this mean your defense of Lucas is "He's as crappy as he's always been"? I wouldn't argue too vociferously against that. ;) [/QUOTE]
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