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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8595005" data-attributes="member: 42582">I just compared the 4e stealth rules in the PHB to the revised rules in the PHB 2.The revised rules are undoubtedly clearer.The original rules have a few main differences. First, they allow a Stealth check to be made with ordinary cover or concealment rather than requiring superior cover or total concealment. Second, they rely more on opposed checks rather than passive checks - as well as swinginess, this also causes issues with action economy (eg do opponents get to make their checks for free?). Third, they have two &quot;grades&quot; of hidden - as well as the hidden status that [USER=22779]@Hussar[/USER] has mentioned, which you get if Stealth beats Perception, there's also a lesser status that is obtained if you have total concealment or superior cover, and the perceivers beat your Stealth check but don't beat it by 10 or more. Under that status, people know you're around and in what direction, but don't know exactly where you are.Back in 2008, I thought the &quot;two grades&quot; of hidden idea was interesting, but I don't think they came up in our play prior to the update being released. The revised rules - while being a bit of a nerf - are easier to use.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8595005, member: 42582"] I just compared the 4e stealth rules in the PHB to the revised rules in the PHB 2. The revised rules are undoubtedly clearer. The original rules have a few main differences. First, they allow a Stealth check to be made with ordinary cover or concealment rather than requiring superior cover or total concealment. Second, they rely more on opposed checks rather than passive checks - as well as swinginess, this also causes issues with action economy (eg do opponents get to make their checks for free?). Third, they have two "grades" of hidden - as well as the hidden status that [USER=22779]@Hussar[/USER] has mentioned, which you get if Stealth beats Perception, there's also a lesser status that is obtained if you have total concealment or superior cover, and the perceivers beat your Stealth check but don't beat it by 10 or more. Under that status, people know you're around and in what direction, but don't know exactly where you are. Back in 2008, I thought the "two grades" of hidden idea was interesting, but I don't think they came up in our play prior to the update being released. The revised rules - while being a bit of a nerf - are easier to use. [/QUOTE]

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