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<blockquote data-quote="Ancalagon" data-source="post: 8600259" data-attributes="member: 23">See, I find this a bit sad, because to me party optimization is a lot more interesting than single PC optimization - and when I say optimization, I don't mean &quot;the best party build is!!!&quot;.&nbsp; I mean finding all the various permutations of party composition that can work fairly well together and testing them out in a campaign.&nbsp; Like that cleric situation above - so one play says &quot;fine, I'll play a cleric, but I don't want to be a healbot, I want to blow naughty word up&quot; and takes something like a knowledge cleric so they can also be the &quot;party scholar&quot; - so now we have a cleric willing to use offensive magic, and fill a party role.&nbsp; So the warlock - who doesn't have to the the party scholar even though he's the &quot;mage&quot; - to help the cleric be more than a healer, takes the &quot;healer&quot; feat.&nbsp; The player wanting to be the tank takes paladin, but he also takes outlander, providing the party with healing, tanking and &quot;nature lore&quot;.&nbsp;&nbsp; The last player didn't want to play a rogue, but chose monk to provide the party with some scouting... but open-hand because they wanted to do kung-fu and kick butt.&nbsp;&nbsp; This party did very well.&nbsp; The beauty of 5e is that there are a lot party comp that work fairly well, as long as some of the players are willing to be flexible - and even the less flexible players tweaking their build to help out.&nbsp; A decently designed PC will be strong in one thing, but be good at a 2nd and decent at a third, and that flexibility is so good to have.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ancalagon, post: 8600259, member: 23"] See, I find this a bit sad, because to me party optimization is a [I]lot[/I] more interesting than single PC optimization - and when I say optimization, I don't mean "the best party build is!!!". I mean finding all the various permutations of party composition that can work fairly well together and testing them out in a campaign. Like that cleric situation above - so one play says "fine, I'll play a cleric, but I don't want to be a healbot, I want to blow naughty word up" and takes something like a knowledge cleric so they can [I]also[/I] be the "party scholar" - so now we have a cleric willing to use offensive magic, and fill a party role. So the warlock - who doesn't have to the the party scholar even though he's the "mage" - to help the cleric be more than a healer, takes the "healer" feat. The player wanting to be the tank takes paladin, but he also takes outlander, providing the party with healing, tanking and "nature lore". The last player didn't want to play a rogue, but chose monk to provide the party with some scouting... but open-hand because they wanted to do kung-fu and kick butt. This party did very well. The beauty of 5e is that there are a lot party comp that work fairly well, as long as some of the players are willing to be flexible - and even the less flexible players tweaking their build to help out. A decently designed PC will be strong in one thing, but be good at a 2nd and decent at a third, and that flexibility is so good to have. [/QUOTE]

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