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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Shaman" data-source="post: 2122185" data-attributes="member: 26473">I would frame this slightly differently. I think there are two views of classes: "class-as-occupation" and "class-as-skill-package.""Class-as-occupation" means that anyone who takes levels in Barbarian comes from a primitive tribe on the hinterlands, anyone who takes levels in Monk is an ascetic who studied in a temple-monastery, and so on. The class is a fantasy archetype."Class-as-skill-package" has no problem with a "Barbarian" who grew up in the slums of a major city and learned to channel his anger into a distinctive fighting style to survive on the mean streets or a "Monk" who was a pit fighter in a gladatorial slave pen and specialized in unarmed combat techniques. The class is a set of linked abilities.D&D was founded on fantasy archetypes and that mode of thinking about classes persists. Perhaps it's maturity or gaming experience, perhaps it's something fundamental to the game of D&D - I don't have a good answer as to the reasons why. I notice this with respect to d20 Modern as well: Modern's base classes really does away with the fantasy archetype and replaces it with ability-based classes and actively encourages multi-classing to the point where there are no 20-level class progressions (i.e., everyone multiclasses at some point), yet I still hear players bemoan that they can't start off as a "soldier" since they can't take the Soldier advanced class until 4th level, perhaps unable to visualize a "soldier" as a Tough 1/Dedicated 1, a Strong 2, or a Fast 1/Charismatic 1.The fantasy archetype still exists in 3.x, but now we have wide-open multiclassing, changes to class restrictions (remember 17 Cha for a Paladin?), and the introduction of prestige classes. While dual-class characters and multi-classing go back many years, now it's possible to create a character concept and cherry-pick classes to make that concept of ultimate archer or magic-wielding thief or undead-hunter more seamlessly than ever. It's possible to develop a character concept and build the mechanics to make that concept playable, such as wingsandsword's Monk/Rogue/Assassin ninja, but it does require stepping beyond the "class-as-ocupation" archetype, and for whatever reason, some players have a hard time with that. Perhaps it's that these players simply want to play the archetypal hero, and "building" the character through multiclassing takes away from the sense of wholeness or completeness that an archetype represents.Does this have a bearing on the 'proliferation' of PrCs and basic classes? Perhaps, but I see something else at work. Most of the feats and class abilities I see introduced 'break' the core rules in some way: this class ability allows you to avoid an AoO, that feat offers you the ability to use weapons that are too large for you, and so on ad infinitum ad nauseum. With the newer WotC books most of the rules I see offered as feats and abilities seems to be of the kind that negates other rules/abilities: you have immunity to cold, but now here's a feat that negates your immunity, and here's a class ability that allows you to ignore the feat that negates the immunity. It strikes me that there is such a slavish obsession over balance, of not favoring any one ability over another, that the designers won't be content until every ability, feat, and feature has a means to be negated by another ability et al.This to me is the problem: too much emphasis on game balance, that for every power there much be a corresponding 'anti-power' somewhere in the world. I think this is one of the sources of so many boring PrCs and feats.As far as PrCs, I miss the 'prestige' of prestige classes - it was largely dropped from 3.0 to 3.5 when it became apparent that the way to sell books was to offer more PrCs, and the resulting backlash seems to be restoring the 3.0 approach of prestige classes as more than skill-sets to be cherry-picked.</blockquote>

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