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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wyrmshadows" data-source="post: 4449445" data-attributes="member: 56166">Ah, there is the rub. Allowing the PCs to know of the NPCs abilities is 'rubbing their nose in it'? If there is a great mage, lord protector knight of the realm, warrior king, mighty high priest, etc. the PCs are going to hear about it...people talk. Taverns are full of stories NOT just those about the current batch of PCs.  IMO the problem is a subtle adversarial relationship between the DM and a competition between the PCs and signifigant setting NPCs. if this exists it is a problem at the table that extends beyond some official NPC guidelines or whatnot. Admittedly, a 15th level wizard mentor shouldn't be traveling with a group of 5th level PCs. This would of course cause the NPC to outshine the PCs...this is the DM's fault and can be the source of anti-NPC resentment.  If the 5th level PCs are fleeing from an demonic threat and seek shelter in a known bastion of a good faith, wisely seeking somewhere to hide out and the local high priest, realistically helps them defeat the threat that they brought to his attention by using a holy word spell....then this is a legit use of a high level supporting NPC. If the player has a problem with this, then it is their issue and not the DMs problem for believably portraying the NPC. There is a difference between having a high level NPC act believably in the context of a given campaign/story/circumstance and having an NPC 'show up' the PCs. I have never seen a believable campaign run that didn't occasionally introduce the PCs to their betters as a part of the plot, because the PCs sought them out, or whatever. The PCs do not exist in a heroic vacuum where they are insulated from those superior to them in power and ability. In 23+yrs of DMing I have never seen my players complain because High Mage Greybeard cast meteor swarm on the battlefield while they were engaged against a threat more appropriate to their level. When they are more powerful they will be able to do what High Mage Greybeard does and perhaps will become even more powerful and he will need their help. Everything in this discussion is context based and an attempt to quantify setting/campaign specific variables. There are no hard and fast rules for the role of NPCs except: 1. They should not be the focus of the campaign. 2. They can be more powerful than the PCs but there must be reasons they cannot be directly involved in the PCs exploits so players don't bridle under a blow to suspension of disbelief. 3. They live or die based on the DM's needs in regards to the story. 4. They can help the PCs when either asked or when their involvement is necessary for the plot. They can provide resources, contacts, succor, etc.  5. They exist to make the world seem real and dynamic and to enrich the game not to upstage the PCs or provide deus ex machina for bad storytelling on the part of the DM.  There may be others but that's the idea.   Wyrmshadows</blockquote>

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