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The purpose of deity stats in D&D.
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<blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 9523782" data-attributes="member: 326"><p>Yes, as with any business person, expand into different markets.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What someone does in their personal life as long as it hurts no one else is of no consequence to me.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Vilified...or simply detailed?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>He was the head of the company and wrote the Foreword. That's the extent of his involvement in that book to the best of our knowledge (going by what Jim Ward posted here on ENWorld a few years ago).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I already outlined the reasons why it didn't make sense.</p><p></p><p>Everyone has some degree of Cultural Bias so that's not a negative thing, just a matter of fact. Same reason D&D originally had a heavy Western-European Medieval cultural bias. None of that precludes other creators from around the world publishing their own RPGs with their own degrees of Cultural biases. Nor does it preclude D&D hiring creators with different cultural biases. But the bottom line is...</p><p></p><p>You can't please all the people all the time.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Who cares whether it was a business decision or not!? Clearly it was the smart decision.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think it necessarily would anger the community. I think it would anger their families and rile up the people who were trying to get D&D banned at the time. Don't give your enemies ammunition.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes but I don't have the weight and fate of an entire company and its many workers on my shoulders.</p><p></p><p>Its easy for you or me to say Deities & demigods should have had stats for God...'just to be fair'. But if the outrage causes sales to plummet and people lose their jobs - then its your fault. So better to err on the side of caution.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Players likely wouldn't care. I suspect a lot of families would. Their pressure could have led to D&D banned from bookstores and toy stores.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No you are gambling with other peoples lives and money because you have no responsibility for them or to them when things go wrong.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would have thought it was obvious. Some books are better not in the hands of impressionable minors.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The point is you think Cultural Bias is a bad thing, when in reality its just a thing.</p><p></p><p>Everyone on this forum and around the world has their own biases. Get over it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>More meaningless buzzwords. You haven't explained why cultural bias is a bad thing...'ideological' or otherwise.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You can criticize anything you want but unless you are without sin, its comes across as hypocritical to slander others for their sins.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>He's not mythological in the eyes of Christians.</p><p></p><p><strong>Let me ask you this if WotC did a 5.5E version of Deities & Demigods should they have stats for Yahweh/GOD/Adonai...?</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Religions/Pantheons are equal. Therefore a Monotheistic Religion needs to be on par with a Polytheistic Religion.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Probably because someone would fight him anyway - just like our campaign fought Greater Gods.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Either way - so what?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The argument back then was that the Demons & Devils were the villains of the game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually there were lots of Religions and Deities that did not show up.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Common sense, game balance.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Anyone who reads mythology understands that not all gods are equal. The different degrees of Divinity simply reflect that. Zeus is clearly above Hercules, etc.</p><p></p><p>Just like Elminster isn't statted as a Level 1 Wizard.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No its sound and logical game design.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Characters have Levels.</p><p></p><p>Gods have Ranks (or their own versions of levels).</p><p></p><p>Highest Level Mortal < Weakest Rank God.</p><p></p><p>I agree there is no reason a Level 20 character cannot kill a god, just like there is no reason they cannot kill the Tarrasque. But the greater the gap between mortal and immortal then the tougher the task becomes. Eventually the Probability of success becomes fractional and impractical.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No because 12 hit points would have seen them weaker than low level Player Characters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It does, you just don't seem to be able to grasp the idiosyncracies of game design.</p><p></p><p>The power of the gods is designed to be interactable with each rank above and below. Just like Character Levels don't go from adding d10 hit points to d1 billion 'out of the blue' for no reason.</p><p></p><p>Therefore power increases, but no so much that it prevents interaction with the previous level/rank.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Pure nonsense.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually there were about a dozen religions not in the book. So it wasn't just one.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It did have the Babylonian gods.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Its nothing to do with ideology. </p><p></p><p>As with Class Levels you create steps/ranks for power with each being incrementally better than the last.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Spoken like someone with zero responsibility or accountability on their shoulders.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Clearly.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Upper_Krust, post: 9523782, member: 326"] Yes, as with any business person, expand into different markets. What someone does in their personal life as long as it hurts no one else is of no consequence to me. Vilified...or simply detailed? He was the head of the company and wrote the Foreword. That's the extent of his involvement in that book to the best of our knowledge (going by what Jim Ward posted here on ENWorld a few years ago). I already outlined the reasons why it didn't make sense. Everyone has some degree of Cultural Bias so that's not a negative thing, just a matter of fact. Same reason D&D originally had a heavy Western-European Medieval cultural bias. None of that precludes other creators from around the world publishing their own RPGs with their own degrees of Cultural biases. Nor does it preclude D&D hiring creators with different cultural biases. But the bottom line is... You can't please all the people all the time. Who cares whether it was a business decision or not!? Clearly it was the smart decision. I don't think it necessarily would anger the community. I think it would anger their families and rile up the people who were trying to get D&D banned at the time. Don't give your enemies ammunition. Yes but I don't have the weight and fate of an entire company and its many workers on my shoulders. Its easy for you or me to say Deities & demigods should have had stats for God...'just to be fair'. But if the outrage causes sales to plummet and people lose their jobs - then its your fault. So better to err on the side of caution. Players likely wouldn't care. I suspect a lot of families would. Their pressure could have led to D&D banned from bookstores and toy stores. No you are gambling with other peoples lives and money because you have no responsibility for them or to them when things go wrong. I would have thought it was obvious. Some books are better not in the hands of impressionable minors. The point is you think Cultural Bias is a bad thing, when in reality its just a thing. Everyone on this forum and around the world has their own biases. Get over it. More meaningless buzzwords. You haven't explained why cultural bias is a bad thing...'ideological' or otherwise. You can criticize anything you want but unless you are without sin, its comes across as hypocritical to slander others for their sins. He's not mythological in the eyes of Christians. [B]Let me ask you this if WotC did a 5.5E version of Deities & Demigods should they have stats for Yahweh/GOD/Adonai...?[/B] Religions/Pantheons are equal. Therefore a Monotheistic Religion needs to be on par with a Polytheistic Religion. Probably because someone would fight him anyway - just like our campaign fought Greater Gods. Either way - so what? The argument back then was that the Demons & Devils were the villains of the game. Actually there were lots of Religions and Deities that did not show up. Common sense, game balance. Anyone who reads mythology understands that not all gods are equal. The different degrees of Divinity simply reflect that. Zeus is clearly above Hercules, etc. Just like Elminster isn't statted as a Level 1 Wizard. No its sound and logical game design. Characters have Levels. Gods have Ranks (or their own versions of levels). Highest Level Mortal < Weakest Rank God. I agree there is no reason a Level 20 character cannot kill a god, just like there is no reason they cannot kill the Tarrasque. But the greater the gap between mortal and immortal then the tougher the task becomes. Eventually the Probability of success becomes fractional and impractical. No because 12 hit points would have seen them weaker than low level Player Characters. It does, you just don't seem to be able to grasp the idiosyncracies of game design. The power of the gods is designed to be interactable with each rank above and below. Just like Character Levels don't go from adding d10 hit points to d1 billion 'out of the blue' for no reason. Therefore power increases, but no so much that it prevents interaction with the previous level/rank. Pure nonsense. Actually there were about a dozen religions not in the book. So it wasn't just one. It did have the Babylonian gods. Its nothing to do with ideology. As with Class Levels you create steps/ranks for power with each being incrementally better than the last. Spoken like someone with zero responsibility or accountability on their shoulders. Clearly. [/QUOTE]
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