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Message: <blockquote data-quote="harpy" data-source="post: 5054323" data-attributes="member: 85243">Excellent!It was probably somewhat of a mistake, but how I was working the analysis was in part built on the resource of time.One of the principles that I was working with is the notion that on average a combat encounter lasts on average five rounds.  So as the wizard goes up in levels the number of spells increases to the point past which you can realistically use in any given encounter.In the realpolitik of a gaming session, it would seem really difficult to run through five encounters simply because turns take far too long with lots of iterative attacks and high powered spells and powers being flung about, so a 20th level wizard who has 55+ spells prepared is going to have more resources than the game is likely going to push them to expend.So even though the fighter has less resource management, the limited time of needing to be expending them ends up favoring the wizard more and more.Still, all of that is very broad in assumption, and fine tuning really is needed.I'd agree that it is the top few layers of spells that are going to have the most impact, though the issue of Quicken Spell, along with scrolls and other magic items (which I wasn't accounting for) is another layer that seems to favor the wizard even more.  At the highest levels the wizard is going to be able to burn mid level spells to get some of the new still effective low level spells (like grease) to be cast in the same round that a high powered spell is being flung, thus pushing the limited time factor of "rounds per day" even father into wizards corner.I didn't take those factors into account, seeing them more as a buffer in, what I have to admit, was not as rigorous of a methodology as you'd been using.I agree.  The math is a bit too ham fisted.  I started plugging numbers in and went back to your class rebalance section and followed your and Craig's method.Now the thing that I'm kind of scratching my head over is that both of you decided to average out the class features over 20 levels.  I'm not sure why this was done because it seems like it just flattens the power curve, when that really needs to be highlighted to show the disparity between spellcasters and martial characters.Plugging all of the numbers in that you and Craig used (and using the .005 value for spell factor multiplication), but not doing the averaging I got:<img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2737/4267319667_158c771766_b.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" />The numbers for the graph are:<img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2703/4267347887_a7929f3f84_o.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" />Now, the Wizard was higher that the fighter right from the start mainly because of the familiar being stated out and added to the wizard, rather than just giving the wizard a +0.2.But the main issue is with the high levels of play.  There the the gulf opens up between the wizard and the fighter.  But with these new numbers I'm not too sure how to use them.  Just by the factors alone a 20th level fighter and 20th level wizard are 162.95 "feats" apart (assuming the 0.2 value for a feat) which if people think 45 feats is too much, would think this factoring absurd.I know that one avenue would be to try and work out the value of feats as they progress over the levels.  A feat gained at first level probably isn't going to be as potent as one that has a level 16 prerequisite.  However even there the disparity in power isn't that great compared to 1st level spells vs 9th level spells.Overall though, I just wanted to get this concept out onto the boards because I haven't found anyone trying to do a quadratic fighter concept.  It seems obvious that the fighter's 11 extra feats are inadequate, and so if you just go withe the concept of a fighter being a "feat wizard" then it really just comes down to trying to figure out how many feats should roll out at certain levels.In the most broad thematic view, the idea is to emulate the AD&D fighter which was more of the "total package" guy who'd gain a large number of proficiencies in weapons.  Rather than hyper specializing and becoming a one-trick pony, the fighter can pretty much pick up any weapon and be deadly with it.  So if you pack enough feats onto a 3.5 fighter then they have something similar in terms of diversity.</blockquote>

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