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<blockquote data-quote="Wulf Ratbane" data-source="post: 3751965" data-attributes="member: 94">Hey &quot;M&quot;--I think you're just restating what I saying.I believe it would be helpful to look at the absolute baseline and work forward.1) First, design a Level 1 &quot;brute.&quot; What is his BAB, AC, avg. damage, and hps? (We'll stop using CR, as apparently so will WOTC, reverting to the older &quot;level&quot; nomenclature.)2) Now, we know that in 4e, 5 of these Brutes are an appropriate encounter for FIVE PCs.3) A 1st level PC must be more powerful than this &quot;baseline&quot; Level 1 brute. If a given PC was equal in power to this brute, then the whole matchup would be a 50/50 coin flip. Aside:[sblock]As an aside here, I'd really much rather be using a 4 PC party. Not because it may or may not be the typical size, but because &quot;4&quot; is going to work out much smoother for our math. With everyone's agreement, we can switch to a 4:4 match-up.[/sblock]4) How much more powerful does the 1st level PC have to be than a Level 1 brute? What level of difficulty do we want to solve for? Although I think 50/50 is too tough, I think the default &quot;moderate&quot; of 3e was actually too easy. Somewhere in between would be my guess.5) Working forwards, what are the stats of a 1st level Fighter (our &quot;brute&quot;)?6) Working farther forwards, what are the stats of a Level 2 brute? And of a Level 2 fighter, such that the relationship is preserved?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Wulf Ratbane, post: 3751965, member: 94"] Hey "M"-- I think you're just restating what I saying. I believe it would be helpful to look at the absolute baseline and work forward. 1) First, design a Level 1 "brute." What is his BAB, AC, avg. damage, and hps? (We'll stop using CR, as apparently so will WOTC, reverting to the older "level" nomenclature.) 2) Now, we know that in 4e, 5 of these Brutes are an appropriate encounter for FIVE PCs. 3) A 1st level PC [i]must be[/i] more powerful than this "baseline" Level 1 brute. If a given PC was equal in power to this brute, then the whole matchup would be a 50/50 coin flip. Aside:[sblock]As an aside here, I'd really much rather be using a 4 PC party. Not because it may or may not be the typical size, but because "4" is going to work out much smoother for our math. With everyone's agreement, we can switch to a 4:4 match-up.[/sblock] 4) How much more powerful does the 1st level PC have to be than a Level 1 brute? What level of difficulty do we want to solve for? Although I think 50/50 is too tough, I think the default "moderate" of 3e was actually too easy. Somewhere in between would be my guess. 5) Working forwards, what are the stats of a 1st level Fighter (our "brute")? 6) Working farther forwards, what are the stats of a Level 2 brute? And of a Level 2 fighter, such that the relationship is preserved? [/QUOTE]

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