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<blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 3752855" data-attributes="member: 141">Here's another sequence of critters.&nbsp; Call them Orcs, though I haven't used the Orc statistics.&nbsp; It's the Ogre stats, but with a higher starting AC.&nbsp; Each row is four times as powerful as the row above it, but the end result is weaker than an Ogre20, even though it starts off stronger.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused&nbsp; &nbsp; :confused:"&nbsp; data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> [code]Orc4:&nbsp; Attack +8,&nbsp; damage 16,&nbsp; AC 21, hp 32Orc6:&nbsp; Attack +8,&nbsp; damage 16,&nbsp; AC 27, hp 32&nbsp;&nbsp; Orc8:&nbsp; Attack +14, damage 16,&nbsp; AC 27, hp 32&nbsp; &nbsp; Orc10: Attack +14, damage 16,&nbsp; AC 27, hp 128&nbsp;&nbsp; Orc12: Attack +14, damage 32,&nbsp; AC 27, hp 256&nbsp;&nbsp; Orc14: Attack +14, damage 32,&nbsp; AC 33, hp 256&nbsp;&nbsp; Orc16: Attack +20, damage 32,&nbsp; AC 33, hp 256&nbsp;&nbsp; Orc18: Attack +20, damage 64,&nbsp; AC 33, hp 512&nbsp;&nbsp; Orc20: Attack +20, damage 64,&nbsp; AC 39, hp 512&nbsp; [/code]edit:Well, I don't understand otherwise how CR is to be assigned to monsters.&nbsp; The double number = +2 EL I can understand (if supplemented by the notion that a single monster of CR N is an EL N encounter).&nbsp; But for this to generate a sequence of brutes (OgreN, OrcN, whatever) you need to be anticipating 2 on 1 combats.&nbsp; Although by Lanchester's Square Laws this implies that on a 1 on 1 combat the bigger loses 25% of its hit points while squashing the smaller.&nbsp; As long as their CRs differ by 2.&nbsp; If one MonN is a challenge to a group of 4, then 4 Mon(N-2) is the same challenge to that group.&nbsp; If the exponential law holds, that is.&nbsp; But I'm using the 3.5 convention that a monster is CR N if it is a moderate challenge to a group of four level N PCs.&nbsp; The difference between the OgreN and the OrcN sequences makes me wonder whether it is helpful to use a sequence of &quot;Brutes&quot; to investigate power curves.&nbsp; An Orc20 is nowhere near as powerful as an Ogre20.&nbsp; In fact, an Ogre20 is 20 times as powerful!Unless I've really screwed up the math.edit2:The thread in question is <a href="http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=205686&amp;page=1&amp;pp=40" target="_blank">A 30th-level Party needs 50th-level Monsters...</a>.&nbsp; Upper_Krust doesn't buy the exponential power increase, at least at epic levels.&nbsp; Try extending the Ogre and Orc tables and you'll see why!&nbsp; He is now using a cubic power curve, which means that a single 50th level monster has the power of a five member party of 30th level PCs.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cheiromancer, post: 3752855, member: 141"] Here's another sequence of critters. Call them Orcs, though I haven't used the Orc statistics. It's the Ogre stats, but with a higher starting AC. Each row is four times as powerful as the row above it, but the end result is weaker than an Ogre20, even though it starts off stronger. :confused: [code] Orc4: Attack +8, damage 16, AC 21, hp 32 Orc6: Attack +8, damage 16, AC 27, hp 32 Orc8: Attack +14, damage 16, AC 27, hp 32 Orc10: Attack +14, damage 16, AC 27, hp 128 Orc12: Attack +14, damage 32, AC 27, hp 256 Orc14: Attack +14, damage 32, AC 33, hp 256 Orc16: Attack +20, damage 32, AC 33, hp 256 Orc18: Attack +20, damage 64, AC 33, hp 512 Orc20: Attack +20, damage 64, AC 39, hp 512 [/code] edit: Well, I don't understand otherwise how CR is to be assigned to monsters. The double number = +2 EL I can understand (if supplemented by the notion that a single monster of CR N is an EL N encounter). But for this to generate a sequence of brutes (OgreN, OrcN, whatever) you need to be anticipating 2 on 1 combats. Although by Lanchester's Square Laws this implies that on a 1 on 1 combat the bigger loses 25% of its hit points while squashing the smaller. As long as their CRs differ by 2. If one MonN is a challenge to a group of 4, then 4 Mon(N-2) is the same challenge to that group. If the exponential law holds, that is. But I'm using the 3.5 convention that a monster is CR N if it is a moderate challenge to a group of four level N PCs. The difference between the OgreN and the OrcN sequences makes me wonder whether it is helpful to use a sequence of "Brutes" to investigate power curves. An Orc20 is nowhere near as powerful as an Ogre20. In fact, an Ogre20 is 20 times as powerful! Unless I've really screwed up the math. edit2: The thread in question is [url=http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=205686&page=1&pp=40]A 30th-level Party needs 50th-level Monsters...[/url]. Upper_Krust doesn't buy the exponential power increase, at least at epic levels. Try extending the Ogre and Orc tables and you'll see why! He is now using a cubic power curve, which means that a single 50th level monster has the power of a five member party of 30th level PCs. [/QUOTE]

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