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<blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 3753594" data-attributes="member: 141">Excellent points, mmadsen!&nbsp; Your description of the AC issue is very clear.&nbsp; I suppose it is no accident that three of the &quot;big six&quot; are AC boosters (armor and shield; amulet of natural armor; ring of protection... oh, and Dex boosters.&nbsp; So 4, actually).&nbsp; AC is super important to survival.Anyway, I was just reading this quote from Andy Collins:Do you suppose that quadrupling a creature's power will now happen over 4 levels instead of 2?&nbsp; That seems to be the easiest way of doubling the interval in which a monster is viable.Oh, and it seems clear to me that monster levels are weaker than PC levels.&nbsp; If four fifth-level monsters fight a party of four fifth-level characters and challenges them moderately, then the monsters must be weaker than the characters.&nbsp; Or am I missing something?And this reminds me of something that I've forgotten; when the PCs are fighting a group of weaker monsters, they are, on average, fighting only half of them.&nbsp; At the beginning of the fight they are fighting all of them, and at the end of the fight they aren't fighting any; at the mid-point of the fight half of them are gone.&nbsp; (I suppose the true average is more like 2/3, since everyone can't focus all their attacks on the same monster.)&nbsp; It's like the death spiral that heralds a TPK; as PCs drop, there are fewer PCs to defeat the remaining opponents, and the opponents attacks can be focussed on the PCs left standing.I suspect that in multi-monster encounters a MonN will be about 1/2 a PC(N)'s power.&nbsp; If they are just changing the rate of exponential increase, that will be the power of a PC(N-2).&nbsp; Or maybe PC(N-3), if it turns out to be impractical for the party to focus their efforts on one opponent at a time.It does seem to me that monster level is different than PC level.&nbsp; In other words, a group of 4th level PCs might be considered 6th level monsters if encountered as antagonists.editIf they are stretching out monster CRs (so a +2 CR gap is now +4 monster levels), I imagine that the same thing would have to happen to PC levels.&nbsp; I wonder if PCs will start at what was 4th level, and will end their career at what was 18th level?&nbsp; Or thereabouts.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cheiromancer, post: 3753594, member: 141"] Excellent points, mmadsen! Your description of the AC issue is very clear. I suppose it is no accident that three of the "big six" are AC boosters (armor and shield; amulet of natural armor; ring of protection... oh, and Dex boosters. So 4, actually). AC is super important to survival. Anyway, I was just reading this quote from Andy Collins: Do you suppose that quadrupling a creature's power will now happen over 4 levels instead of 2? That seems to be the easiest way of doubling the interval in which a monster is viable. Oh, and it seems clear to me that monster levels are weaker than PC levels. If four fifth-level monsters fight a party of four fifth-level characters and challenges them moderately, then the monsters must be weaker than the characters. Or am I missing something? And this reminds me of something that I've forgotten; when the PCs are fighting a group of weaker monsters, they are, on average, fighting only half of them. At the beginning of the fight they are fighting all of them, and at the end of the fight they aren't fighting any; at the mid-point of the fight half of them are gone. (I suppose the true average is more like 2/3, since everyone can't focus all their attacks on the same monster.) It's like the death spiral that heralds a TPK; as PCs drop, there are fewer PCs to defeat the remaining opponents, and the opponents attacks can be focussed on the PCs left standing. I suspect that in multi-monster encounters a MonN will be about 1/2 a PC(N)'s power. If they are just changing the rate of exponential increase, that will be the power of a PC(N-2). Or maybe PC(N-3), if it turns out to be impractical for the party to focus their efforts on one opponent at a time. It does seem to me that monster level is different than PC level. In other words, a group of 4th level PCs might be considered 6th level monsters if encountered as antagonists. edit If they are stretching out monster CRs (so a +2 CR gap is now +4 monster levels), I imagine that the same thing would have to happen to PC levels. I wonder if PCs will start at what was 4th level, and will end their career at what was 18th level? Or thereabouts. [/QUOTE]

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