Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Million Dollar TTRPG Crowdfunders
Most Anticipated Tabletop RPGs Of The Year
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Question of Balance
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Glyfair" data-source="post: 3055991" data-attributes="member: 53"><p>Yes & no. I don't think that 3rd party books are inherently more "broken" than WotC books. Yes, the horribly balanced books are non-WotC books (counting PDFs as books) because the requirements to publish, especially online, is so low. Still, those books get so little attention that no one really discusses them (or considers them worth discussing).</p><p></p><p>However, I've noticed that I'm using very, very few 3rd party books in my game, even though I'm not inherently against 3rd party material. Looking back I see two main reasons, both related to the idea that WotC books are the baseline assumptions for a standard game.</p><p></p><p>The first reason focuses mostly on the early days of d20. If you grant that WotC books give what most consider the baseline D&D experience, a lot of 3rd party books don't measure up. To me they operated with a completely different balance level and didn't feel right. Often classes, monsters, etc. were too powerful or not powerful enough (yes, WotC does this, but less often). Sovereign Stone to me was an excellent world, but had a much lower power level balance, that meant you either used all of it or none of it.</p><p></p><p>The second reason applies to books that didn't have the same balance issues. Books like Monte Cook's <em>Book of Eldritch Might</em> was well balanced within the WotC baseline. However, it required you to fit in large swaths of material in some places. The whole concept of Eldritch feats really requires most of it be added to work.</p><p></p><p>Another book I want to use, but find myself using little is <em>Hyperconcious</em>. One problem is that a good part of the book makes assumptions about the dream world. However, I run my game in Eberron and there are different assumptions about the dream world. So, I can't use that as written. I'd have to make some changes, and its just not worth the effort to me. I don't really need it.</p><p></p><p>To grab another Monte Cook book, I love Unearthed Arcana. The magic system is great, I love many of the concepts. However, it's different enough that, for the most party, you use all or nothing. I could go through and rewrite the D&D magic system so there are diminished spells, but that's not really worthwhile. So, I'll use all of the magic system, or none. Mostly, people choose none. Those that choose to use all rarely see any balance issues within it.</p><p></p><p>So, I think a lot of it is that many (or even most) 3rd party books are built having a different base for the power balance. If you have a standard D&D game, you likely don't like them. If you do, then you likely feel they have the proper balance.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Glyfair, post: 3055991, member: 53"] Yes & no. I don't think that 3rd party books are inherently more "broken" than WotC books. Yes, the horribly balanced books are non-WotC books (counting PDFs as books) because the requirements to publish, especially online, is so low. Still, those books get so little attention that no one really discusses them (or considers them worth discussing). However, I've noticed that I'm using very, very few 3rd party books in my game, even though I'm not inherently against 3rd party material. Looking back I see two main reasons, both related to the idea that WotC books are the baseline assumptions for a standard game. The first reason focuses mostly on the early days of d20. If you grant that WotC books give what most consider the baseline D&D experience, a lot of 3rd party books don't measure up. To me they operated with a completely different balance level and didn't feel right. Often classes, monsters, etc. were too powerful or not powerful enough (yes, WotC does this, but less often). Sovereign Stone to me was an excellent world, but had a much lower power level balance, that meant you either used all of it or none of it. The second reason applies to books that didn't have the same balance issues. Books like Monte Cook's [i]Book of Eldritch Might[/I] was well balanced within the WotC baseline. However, it required you to fit in large swaths of material in some places. The whole concept of Eldritch feats really requires most of it be added to work. Another book I want to use, but find myself using little is [i]Hyperconcious[/I]. One problem is that a good part of the book makes assumptions about the dream world. However, I run my game in Eberron and there are different assumptions about the dream world. So, I can't use that as written. I'd have to make some changes, and its just not worth the effort to me. I don't really need it. To grab another Monte Cook book, I love Unearthed Arcana. The magic system is great, I love many of the concepts. However, it's different enough that, for the most party, you use all or nothing. I could go through and rewrite the D&D magic system so there are diminished spells, but that's not really worthwhile. So, I'll use all of the magic system, or none. Mostly, people choose none. Those that choose to use all rarely see any balance issues within it. So, I think a lot of it is that many (or even most) 3rd party books are built having a different base for the power balance. If you have a standard D&D game, you likely don't like them. If you do, then you likely feel they have the proper balance. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Question of Balance
Top