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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sonofapreacherman" data-source="post: 268887" data-attributes="member: 2315">Al.A paladin with an Intelligence of 13, a Charisma of 1, a Strength of 3, and a Wisdom of 3 *could* qualify to be a paladin. Heck, such a paladin could exist under the existing Player's Handbook system right now. That is the beauty of 3rd edition Dungeons and Dragons. There are no prerequisites for character classes. You can be a paladin with a Charisma of 1 if you like, but you won't be a very effective paladin. The Charisma dependant abilities of a paladin won't let you. Regardless of Expertise (the prerequisite for Improved Disarm) having a minimum Intelligence requirement of 13, the core attributes of paladinhood remain the same. Charisma, Strength, and Wisdom are the still the attributes that define a paladin.As for the Leadership feat and role-playing, my point above extends to this issue as well. Not every paladin prestige class will be running-the-show as you say, because not every paladin will have high Charisma (and consequently not every paladin will have a high Leadership Score). What the Leadership feat does guarantee is that every paladin leads by example, which consequently draws people to them.-----Lily Inverse and Someone.Leadership is powerful. Underestimating the strength of numbers will only be your undoing. Style of game play holds no sway in this argument either. Regardless of your game style, the mechanic of the Leadership feat allow paladins to raise a small army without *ever* settling down. I have abosutely NO idea were you got that notion from Lily. Dungeons and Dragons adventures and epic battles are both called campaigns for a reason. They can be short and sweet or they can be long and drawn out. What they do not have is a fixed time that requires settling down.As for your attribute breakdown, your analysis confirms two points very strongly. One, that you place two much emphasis on Dexterity and Constitution bonus (if you think a +1 modifier is going to make any *shocking* impact on your character), and two, that you never play characters with average, or below average attributes (your loss to role-playing, not mine). Not every paladin will have high attribute scores. Nor do they need them. For example...You wouldn't use anything less than 32 points to create a paladin? Okay, I'll use 28 points and start my 1st level (potential paladin) fighter using the "Tougher Campaign" total. Such a fighter will begin with Strength 14, Dexterity 10, Constitution 10, Intelligence 12, Wisdom 13, and Charisma 15.Over 6 levels of being a fighter, I would make my 7 total feat choices Ambidexterity and Two Weapon fighting at 1st level, Power Attack at 2nd level, Shield Expert at 3rd level, Expertise at 4th level (choosing +1 Intelligence at the same time), and Improved Disarm and Leadership at 6th level... all before becoming a paladin at 7th level (the earliest point possible). I would thereafter choose +1 Charisma as my attribute bonus at 8th level (the same level that I gain the smite evil ability), and Divine Might feat at 9th level (the same level that I gain the turn undead ability). If I was playing a human, add Mounted Combat to my 1st level feat list. Finally, at 12th level (6th level paladin) I would choose almost any mounted combat feat (if not "Mounted Combat" for a demi-human character) and +1 Wisdom (gaining access to my 4th level paladin spells in the next two levels).Strength 14, Dexterity 10, Constitution 10, Intelligence 13, Wisdom 14, Charisma 16.You'd be surprised how *little* impact attributes have where normal challenge level races are concerned.Despite these statistics, this paladin would have no difficulty kicking some serious butt. Such a paladin could fight with a large spiked wooden shield (d6 damage) as an offhand weapon and still retain the +2 bonus to AC with their Shield Expert feat. This paladin could also convert any one of their 8 turn undead attempts per day into a +3 damage bonus across 9 potential attacks (3 per round for 3 rounds) with the Divine Might feat.As you can plainly see, my paladin prestige class is no slouch in the combat department. Glad I could help clear that up.As for the Intelligence 13 requirement being above average... you're absolutely correct. Paladins *should* have slightly above average Intelligence.That's been my point the whole time!As for the remark you made about a Charisma score of 3, see my comments to Al. If you really want to play a paladin with a Charisma score that low, I would be curious to see if you could competently pull it off.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />-----Oh I don't know. Because I *never* said that? What I *did* say was that it's not easy to be a paladin. Having an Intelligence of 13+ is one of the many hurdles that a hopeful paladin must face.</blockquote>

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