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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sonofapreacherman" data-source="post: 269824" data-attributes="member: 2315">Lily Inverse.Something tells me that a 13th level character, with a supposed disposal hoard of 35,000 gold for gear, will have no problems financially providing for 28 people. Keep in mind as well Lily that these people do not gradually "cling" to the paladin like moss as he travels. They are the number of people who the paladin can roust up to support his cause "when needed". And anybody who supports the paladin is more than likely willing to endure a little hardship in their fight against evil.As for a score of 13 representing "above average" Intelligence, once again, I have no difficulty admitting this because (once again) its true. The fact that the paladin prestige class must have this above average score is "by design". More importantly, requiring the paladin to have a 13 Intelligence by level 7 (the earliest) in no way effects their "type". Potential paladins can still devote their 3 highest attribute rolls to their 3 primary statistics (Charisma, Strength, and Wisdom) as I have demonstrated.Is it easy to balance your attributes? Yes and no (I just did it). Should it be easy to become a paladin? Definitely not. Which brings me full circle... and right back to my original reason for making the paladin a prestige class in the first place. I have yet to see one properly role-played at 1st level.Yes it is counter to that image. You are zeroing in on my true purpose Lily! Keep in mind that paladins don't need to "drag-an-army" all over the countryside (they can rally them up only when needed). But while we're on the subject of a paladin and few trusted companions, why would any conscientious paladin simply defend a group of innocent people and then move on, gleefully oblivious to the dangers of retribution that might face those people in his absence?Nay. A true paladin would empower those people to defend themselves against evil, and use himself as the self-sacrificing tool to do so. This would probably involve staying behind for a time to help those people cobble together a self-sustaining militia or makeshift battlement perhaps, but that is the kind of commitment I expect from somebody who is playing a paladin.In short, I expect a character with a heightened sense of responsibilty for the consequence of their actions.This is the kind of role-playing I reward with experience points in a "big" way. Does it make for a typical adventurer who goes spelunking for treasure? Absolutely not. But the paladin has always chafed in that greedy role, barely cobbling together the rationale of... "It's for the church". Yet another reason for me to remake paladins into a prestige class.Sorry, I just had to address this point. While I actually *do* expect a 13th level paladin to fund his own military endeavors, have you ever heard of "The Crusades" before? Church funding big time.Just like every single prestige class in existence. My paladin is no exception.I would never allow such a self-serving people to exist as paladins, but rather create a twisted version of paladinhood for them as an entirely separate prestige class. Having said as much, I probably wouldn't even do that, because I consider Forgotten Realms a vastly overpowered campaign setting (and largely boring because of that fact).-----Al.See my replies to Lily (previously posted and above). As my example of a 28 point character demonstrates, you can devote your 3 highest attributes to Charisma, Strength, and Wisdom, and still qualify for the paladin prestige class at the earliest possible level (7th). Not so hollow a defense.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />It is implicit only if you look at the paladin in one light. Examine the paladin abilities. While you can *technically* devote low attribute scores to Charisma, Strength, and Wisdom, it behooves your character to do otherwise. Ultimately the choice is yours, so do as you please. But you will still need a 13 Intelligence to legitimately *call* yourself a paladin. As I stated before, it's not an easy platinum ring to attain, but at this point in my game mastering career... I won't accept anything less.Not at all. One can still lead armies humbly. Moreover, just because you serve a king in no way excuses you from having to behave *charismatically* in front of your armies. The more so the better, especially from a morale point of view.I hardly think so at all. By that point, their "actions" would have become legendary, even if their personal presence lacked every possible ounce of finesse. There are far greater numbers of people in this world (than a paltry dozen) who have been known to follow the most incompetent of leaders. They often ascribe qualities to those leaders which are not necessarily possessed. It's called projection. Twelve followers I have no problem buying, especially at higher levels. That's why a low Leadership score even exists.-----reapersaurus.I have repeatedly addressed this point now. See my response to Al (above). Heck, see my very first post on this thread.In the future, if you want me to answer your questions directly, do not attempt to shore up your arguments by so obviously misrepresenting and twisting my quotes (I.E. your "Lawful Stupid" interpretation of my posts). Thanks.Here you go again. Actually, this is proof that I can think my way around many different levels of game balance. That's all. Your self-lauded *proof* is insubstantial. My 4 pages of replies on this thread is not.Well, the paladin can still defend himself normally during that round, so I have no problem letting one use their Expertise feat to full effect, boosting armor class by +5 (treating the Divine Might preparation round as an attack action).Correct. That should have read 6, not 8. An inconsequential difference considering how long most combat lasts. As for Divine Might being useless with 16 Charisma, I hardly think so, regardless of whatever brain trust dubbed 18+ Charisma as the only worthwhile score to benefit from that feat. Unless power-gaming is an absolute *must* in your game, a Charisma score of 16 does just fine.As for Ambidexterity requiring 15+ Dexterity, that is completely my bad, but not without an easy solution. Simply replace Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting, and Shield Expert with Mounted Combat and Weapon Specialization at 1st level, Cleave at 3rd level, and Great Cleave or Improved Critical or Improved Trip or any other maximized power-gaming feat at 12th level (you choose). Perhaps not as powerful a paladin to play, perhaps more so, but still no combat slouch with 6 potential Divine Might attacks at 9th level (2 per round for 3 rounds).Lastly, if you really think that misreading the Ambidexterity prerequisite (my only meaningful mistake) equates to an ailing prestige class design, then the only person woefully deluding themselves here is you. Hollow victories are called as much for a reason reapersaurus. They lack substance. True victories require more than idle posturing. Feel free to try again though.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" />P.S. I couldn't help but notice that unless your character example is a dwarf (assuming that only the standard character races are being used) your Ranger1/Cleric1/Fighter4 is suffering from at least a -40% experience point penalty for uneven multiclassing. I don't know about you, but I personally find such a racial limitation galling.</blockquote>

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