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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Al" data-source="post: 270468" data-attributes="member: 2486">Only just.  And only in that precise configuration.  And having a Constitution of a mere 10 is certainly adverse to the paladin's life expectancy.  This would give him a Constitution lower than *any* of the iconic characters: surely there is a reason for the craving of the Con bonus?  Granted, you could make a 'marginal' paladin using a 28-point buy, but bear in mind that this is an above average set, and you are only just scraping through.  Surely paladinhood should be more open to those with zeal and dedication? It is obvious to both of us that only a fool would deploy low ability scores in Str/Wis/Cha if he aims for paladinhood.  Yet the fact remains that Intelligence is required to 'legitimately *call* yourself a paladin'.  This has not been explained.  Your defence, that a high Intelligence is demanded to garner respect only carries so much weight; a high Charisma would be much more useful in this respect, but is not demanded. Quite correct.  Good answer.  To be fair, my Leadership objection was peripheral- the thrust of my objection would be Improved Disarm. I beg to differ.  There is a separate set of modifiers for reputation.  It is entirely conceivable (albeit unlikely) that the paladin has reached 20th level without building reputation.  For one, it is possible that he has adventured with a party and they have shared the glory (with his 1 charisma, most simply perceive him as a drooling sidekick).  Further, it is two dozen followers, not twelve.  Just because one is high level it does not automatically make one inspirational: particularly with a 1 in charisma.You also fail to deal with why Leadership the feat is required, as opposed to leadership the quality.  Surely paladinhood would demand the latter over the former?As an aside, why not consider Sunder to Improved Disarm?  It is more logical as it focusses on one of the paladin's key attributes (Str).  And it have a similar role in combat (to deprive your foe of his weapon).  Make this change, and I'd probably be happy with the prestige class: my reservation about its weakness sufficiently routed by your acceptance of this (and further explanation that this is irrelevant).  Remember, my attack now comes from a logical stance rather than mechanical one.And to prove I'm not just anti-SoaPM, I believe that Lily is quite wrong about Leadership.  For one, it is exceptionally powerful: the cohort alone makes it worthwhile.  Her point about the economics is specious due to the overwhelming wealth of the high-level character.  She misses the point that followers can be made to do other works and not just tromp around the countryside (particularly if one has a keep or similar). I'd disagree with this.  Can the paladin not do good deeds in the vicinity, such as helping the community and such like?  There is more to paladinhood than just bashing baddies.Finally, her point about the Paladins of Firehair (or whatever) is irrelevant.  DMs should not stay fettered to published campaign settings.  Just because the FR guide has a different concept of paladinhood (and it is quite deviant from the 'core' paladin) it does not mean that it should impose.  Dogmatic observation of every published setting is bound to bring up confusion at best and contradiction at worst.</blockquote>

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