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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sonofapreacherman" data-source="post: 271248" data-attributes="member: 2315">Lily Inverse.I have read the Leadership feat... thoroughly. Nothing there about any 2nd edition fighter traits, no matter what you think was "intended". I swear, 3rd edition role-playing is much better served by disregarding 2nd edition material wholesale.As for the delay times involved in attracting followers, I am aware of them as well. My characters often fast forward through months at a time. They love using their craft feats and skills. I make a point of sustaining "medieval time passage" in my adventures (meaning a slower but more realistic pace of life). Twenty levels of level progression does not happen to my characters in the space of an action-packed month.I see nothing even remotely munchkin driven about sharing experience points with 28 other people. Being willing to share your experience points with 28 other people is quite admirable in my opinion (from a meta-gaming perspective).Now I know you're doing little more than skimming my posts. I went on to say that the paladin would stick around long enough to form a self-sustaining militia or reinforce a stronghold. That is most certainly not "waiting to see what else happens".Don't be deliberately silly Lily. Of course it works.Strength 14 (6 points), Dexterity 10 (2 points), Constitution 10 (2 points), Intelligence 12 (4 points), Wisdom 13 (5 points), Charisma 14 (6 points).Not great statistics, but with 25 points characters aren't predispositioned to be legendary. That's why they're only given 25 points! Sheesh, I would have thought that was a given. But to flatly say that my paladin prestige class isn't possible with 25 points is just plain wrong. That said, for you to condemn characters into mediocrity, simply because they're attribute totals equal the Default Array, is very short sighted of you."That paladin was only made with 25 attribute points. Yeah, he'll never amount to anything."Legendary character status is more often defined by role-playing than statistics Lily. Shame on you!Like I said, self-serving. And once again, a paladin can dismiss their army very easily, see my point above, or convert them into another ongoing sedentary purpose.You and the Forgotten Realms equate statistics with survivability power. I equate survivability power with good resourceful role-playing.-----Al.Not to give you the shorthand reply again, but Lily did respond to my post first. See my answer to her similar query above. You are both fixated on high statistics translating into survivability power. My experience has shown me that attribute scores play a very small role in character survivability. Clever role-playing is almost always the key to longevity.Come on Al, work with me here. I haven't said this at all. What did I really say...?Twenty-four followers then, it makes no difference. A charisma of 1 does not make one inspirational. But a Charisma of 1 *and* the Leadership feat does change that. It means that despite the masticating habits of such a paladin, there is still *something* about the character which draws other people to their side; enough to eventually rally at least 24 followers apparently. Leadership wouldn't be a *feat* otherwise (in the truest sense of the word).Lastly, thank you for your general open mindedness on this thread. I have never believed that you were anti-SoaPM, but the sentiment is nonetheless appreciated. Your points about delegating different responsibilities for followers is indeed a good one.As for Improved Disarm, if I did replace it, Sunder would not be my choice. I'd avoid Sunder simply because that is already a prerequisite feat for blackguards, and I want paladins to contrast them on both design and philosophical levels.-----Lily Inverse.And there is nothing particular in my paladin prestige class that states as much either. While I have discussed using the Leadership feat to rally a militia, that is far from the only purpose followers can serve (as Al recently pointed out).As for not breaking the mold of blackguards, that too is by design. My paladin prestige class was created to directly balance against blackguards. You state the obvious Lily, much as another poster did earlier (unless that poster was also you).-----Shirt Guy John.I have actually rewritten the fallen paladin rules as well (to dove-tail with a paladin prestige class, rather than a paladin character class).Table 2-12: Fallen Paladin Blackguard abilitiesPaladin ExtraLevels / Abilities1 Lay on hands. Once per day, the blackguard can cure themselves of damage equal to their Charisma bonus times their blackguard level. The blackguard can only cure themselves or their fiendish servant with this spell-like ability.2-3 Smite good once per day. (This in addition to the ability granted to all blackguards at 2nd level, so that a fallen paladin blackguard can smite good a total of twice per day.)4-5 Sneak attack damage increased by +1d6.6-7 Fiendish summoning. Once per day, the blackguard can use a summon monster I spell to call forth an evil creature. For this spell, the caster level is double the blackguard's class level.8-9 Undead companion. In addition to the fiendish servant, the blackguard gains (at 5th level) a skeleton or zombie of equal size to themselves as a companion. This companion cannot be turned or rebuked by another and gains all special bonuses as a fiendish servant when the blackguard gains levels.10 Favored of the dark deities. Fallen paladins of this stature combine their former paladin levels to their blackguard levels for the purposes of calculating the benefits of lay on hands and smite good.</blockquote>

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