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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Merlion" data-source="post: 819193" data-attributes="member: 10397">DE, allow me to indulge in a little repost to answer your question, from my perspective at least:My thoughts on why the ranger is such a topic of such heated debate: I think the big thing is the archtype problem. Their are so many characters and ideas that all qualify for being exemplfied by the Ranger Class...and everyone has their favorite. Some want to see the Ranger class made into their perfect vision of there favorite rangery archtype...others want to see the class be able to fit all of thease different ideas..and many want for them to recivie specfic class features keyed to each and every one of thease different archtypes.So you've got your this is what the ranger should be people, and your the ranger needs more versatility so it can fit all thease 1,001 concepts people...and then of course people who dislike certain specfic things about the class or the various versions thereof.The 3.0 ranger fails to satisfy much of anyone. and what we hear of the 3.5 ranger satisfies only the TWF and Archery camps of the this is what the ranger should be people, and since it doesnt have specfic class abilities pertaining to all ideas of the ranger it doesnt satisfy the ranger that can fit 1,001 archtypes people.My own thoughts on the ranger situation: the 3.0 ranger sucks. Big time. front loaded. Not enough skill points. stagnates at high levels. favored enemy bonuses get all out of whack. In my opnion even tho the ranger is a combat class his method of combat is not the source of his identity. I feel it is a ranger skills, tracking, and affinity for nature and survival that do. thease things are shown in his skillpoints and class skills, free track feat, and spells. Now many people of all groups want the ranger to get a bonus feat progression from a pool...most vote for some combat feats and things like Alertness Endurance, Skill Focus etc. Not a bad idea. but if thats the ranger you want, play Monte Cooks(very nice, original) variant ranger. Wizards is not ever going to give rangers a bonus feat progression from a pool. That is the fighters shtick. Now doing it with all survival type feats could work..but they arent gonna do that either. they arent going to get anywhere NEAR fighter territory. I think it is an acceptable way to do it but I dont blame them for not...it'd piss off as many or more people as are unhappy about them not doing it. Besides like I said I dont really see the ranger as being defined by combat styles anyway.Now from what I have seen of the 3.5 ranger they are getting more skill points...the ability to track while running...evened out favored enemy bonuses....some sort of improved "wild empathy"...and the frontloadeness and the shoehorning into TWF is being removed. Now, I would have like to have seen another couple styles...but think about it unless they did at least 8 or 10 large numbers of people would still be unhappy. My big deal in all of this is...nothing is perfect and THEY CANT PLEASE EVERYONE. some times about the best they can hope for is to make as many people as happy as possible.Getting back to my opnion of the 3.5 ranger...it looks like the major issues have been addressed. Just based on our partial information. more skill points etc goes a long way. and while 2 styles arent going to fill out all archtypes...you can take a style and then devote all your regular feats to another style or to survival feats...and coupled with the other new class abilities it allows the class to fill a LOT of bleeping roles.</blockquote>

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