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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 6446290" data-attributes="member: 92511">This shows a distinct lack of knowledge in the history of the actual game or class.Rangers are not and were not created to be "spellcasting fighters". In 1e, you got druid spells at 8th level...and, in today's terms, "arcane" spells at 9th. 8th and 9th. Spell ability maxed out at 17th...with a grand total of 2 1st-thru-3rd level druid spells (with no 3rd level spells before 16th level) and 2 1st and 2 2nd mage spells. That's it. There's you big spellcasting fighter.2e rangers didn't get spellcasting until 8th again. This time only "priest" spells and only from the plant and animal spheres.  At 8th level you had spells and caster level of -hang on to your post-2e-hats- 1. You were 12th level before you got level 3 spells (again plant and animal clerical spheres only) and that's as high as you got. Your spell use was a nice, lil' something extra that might make life a little easier, not something you relied on. So no, spellcasting is not "the point" of the ranger. For 2 editions -not "most", not "several" editions, the first 2 of 4- of the game the ranger spent a good half of the game -if not more depending on how much past 8th level you got in play- with no access to spellcasting at all.Spells for the ranger were the top/pinnacle/best/forgotten/secret knowledge & skill they could get their hands on and you had to be ridiculously high level [again, for 1e or even 2e] to be equivalent to even a mid-level caster.I'm not sure where this kind of false equivalency spawns from, but it seems very popular these days. Doing anything to the ranger doesn't mean I have to do anything to the paladin. Paladin's not even in the same room. He's waaay over there in some other thread. We're talking about the ranger here. What changes are made to a class effect that class. Nobody else.As to the [apparently revisable] record of the 40 years of the game, however, fun fact...Paladins in 1e and 2e didn't get spells until later levels also! Level 9 to be exact. 1 1st level spell at 9th level and slow low level progression from there. Yes, unlike the ranger, paladins COULD in fact get up to 4th level spells (from 15th level on). Having their magical paladiny powers are the paladin's shtick, yes. Whether or how much spells are needed for that paladiny magicky goodness is a completely different debate.I'm sure 5e will meet your expectations...or may be shaking in its boots. I'm not sure which.<img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/worried.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":-S" title="Uhm    :-S" data-shortname=":-S" /></blockquote>

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