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The Readied Spell Abyss
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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7352563" data-attributes="member: 6919838"><p>So, i am interested in how you choose to play the following in your games.</p><p></p><p>A warrior and a cleric are in a room with two doors - east and west.</p><p>They hear approaching enemies.</p><p>They each ready... </p><p>Warrior readies bow to shoot first target thru the door.</p><p>Cleric readies Guiding bolt to shoot first one thru the door. this means the spell is CAST and "energy held" and being concentrated on. </p><p></p><p>(lets not argue how they knew the timing so they knew the door was just about to be opened or how it would have been smarter to have the warrior ready to shoot at the one the cleric shoots.)</p><p></p><p>Now is where the questions come up.</p><p></p><p>lets assume they were secretly being watched. </p><p>Would you allow someone observing either of them to make say an Insight" check to realize "their next move" and see that they are "readied" to shoot/attack someone coming thru the door if they saw the "readying being done? Would you allow it if the watcher saw them "while readied" but not when they "readied"? </p><p></p><p>that is general broader question of how perceivable you consider a ready action to be.</p><p></p><p>But now to the Readied spell abyss...</p><p></p><p>An observer seeing/perceiving guiding bolt cast as part of the ready clearly by RAW has a chance to see the casting and to identify the spell itself (XGtE for those who use it or whatever you use for counterspell.) In theory an observer could counterspell or use abilities/feats which allow reactions to spells being cast.</p><p></p><p>After the guiding bolt is released, it has a visible effect and also can be dispelled by dispel magic and depending on how much you rule is known about spells what spell is at work could be observed and determined by whatever means (likely an arcana check.)</p><p></p><p>But in between casting and releasing/takes effect there seems to be a "Ready Spell Abyss" where all we have is "concentration" and a very vague non-specific reference to "holding energy" where the main question is this - is that held energy readied spell thingy at all perceivable, dispellable, counterspellable or identifiable using XgtE or other means... or has it fallen off the weave into some unspecified abyss of rules omission?</p><p></p><p>So let me give you my own Gm rulings on this:</p><p>A readied action or at least that someone has a readied action is at very minumum detectable. with an insight check for "next move" because the subject has a clearly defined focus and intention Whether or not they can get the info without an insight check depends on the nature of the action readied and the degree of discernment is limited by the insight check - easy to see the focus is on the east door but not so much whether its "first guy thru" or what.</p><p></p><p>A readied spell's held energy has a visible/audible/perceivable effect *if* the actual spell effect has such. The energy is visible if and only if the result it would create is also. So, a suggestion spell held would not show any visible pulsing energy but an acid arrow or guiding bolt would. </p><p></p><p>A readied spell's "held energy" can be identified using an arcana check as detailed in XGtE and the usual rules *or* essentially the same way you would do it for counterspell purposes even if you were not opting to use the XGtE.) basically the "held energy" is as unique as the spell effect would be. </p><p></p><p>So by both of these i am *not* assuming the omission of info about the ready/energy status means it gets a free pass.</p><p></p><p>As for Dispel vs Counter - I rule it can be Dispelled while in a ready state but not counterspelled - because it specifically states casting has been done.</p><p></p><p>But, how have you ruled this or have you seen it ruled or if neither - how would you approach it?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7352563, member: 6919838"] So, i am interested in how you choose to play the following in your games. A warrior and a cleric are in a room with two doors - east and west. They hear approaching enemies. They each ready... Warrior readies bow to shoot first target thru the door. Cleric readies Guiding bolt to shoot first one thru the door. this means the spell is CAST and "energy held" and being concentrated on. (lets not argue how they knew the timing so they knew the door was just about to be opened or how it would have been smarter to have the warrior ready to shoot at the one the cleric shoots.) Now is where the questions come up. lets assume they were secretly being watched. Would you allow someone observing either of them to make say an Insight" check to realize "their next move" and see that they are "readied" to shoot/attack someone coming thru the door if they saw the "readying being done? Would you allow it if the watcher saw them "while readied" but not when they "readied"? that is general broader question of how perceivable you consider a ready action to be. But now to the Readied spell abyss... An observer seeing/perceiving guiding bolt cast as part of the ready clearly by RAW has a chance to see the casting and to identify the spell itself (XGtE for those who use it or whatever you use for counterspell.) In theory an observer could counterspell or use abilities/feats which allow reactions to spells being cast. After the guiding bolt is released, it has a visible effect and also can be dispelled by dispel magic and depending on how much you rule is known about spells what spell is at work could be observed and determined by whatever means (likely an arcana check.) But in between casting and releasing/takes effect there seems to be a "Ready Spell Abyss" where all we have is "concentration" and a very vague non-specific reference to "holding energy" where the main question is this - is that held energy readied spell thingy at all perceivable, dispellable, counterspellable or identifiable using XgtE or other means... or has it fallen off the weave into some unspecified abyss of rules omission? So let me give you my own Gm rulings on this: A readied action or at least that someone has a readied action is at very minumum detectable. with an insight check for "next move" because the subject has a clearly defined focus and intention Whether or not they can get the info without an insight check depends on the nature of the action readied and the degree of discernment is limited by the insight check - easy to see the focus is on the east door but not so much whether its "first guy thru" or what. A readied spell's held energy has a visible/audible/perceivable effect *if* the actual spell effect has such. The energy is visible if and only if the result it would create is also. So, a suggestion spell held would not show any visible pulsing energy but an acid arrow or guiding bolt would. A readied spell's "held energy" can be identified using an arcana check as detailed in XGtE and the usual rules *or* essentially the same way you would do it for counterspell purposes even if you were not opting to use the XGtE.) basically the "held energy" is as unique as the spell effect would be. So by both of these i am *not* assuming the omission of info about the ready/energy status means it gets a free pass. As for Dispel vs Counter - I rule it can be Dispelled while in a ready state but not counterspelled - because it specifically states casting has been done. But, how have you ruled this or have you seen it ruled or if neither - how would you approach it? [/QUOTE]
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