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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5430237" data-attributes="member: 22779">On the point of 4e skills getting better.Yes, you gain half your level to skills.&nbsp; Think about that for a second in game terms.&nbsp; Remember that in 4e, stat bonuses are pretty hard to come by.&nbsp; It's not like you pick up +2 or +4 stat bonus items all that easily.&nbsp; And even skill bonus items are fairly limited.&nbsp; So, the bonus that you have to an untrained skill isn't going to be a whole lot more than that 1/2 level bonus.&nbsp; Particularly if you're using standard point buy characters.It's not unusual to have a skill with no stat bonus at all.The DC's for skill checks do go up faster than 1/2 per level do they not?&nbsp; I don't have the errata in front of me, so, i'm not entirely sure of the exact numbers, but, while a 1/2 level skill might cover an easy difficulty with reasonable odds, a hard difficulty would be out of reach of an unskilled character.So, yup, my wizard gets marginally better at climbing stuff as he goes up levels.&nbsp; At 1st level, his spindly little arms just won't get him up that wall.&nbsp; At 30th level, he can climb that wall pretty easily.Of course,&nbsp; by 30th level, what the heck am I doing trying to climb that same wall?My point in all this is that the issue is a bit more nuanced than BryonD is presenting.&nbsp; It's not like the unskilled character can automatically do everyting.&nbsp; Being unskilled means you're going to fail a lot.&nbsp; Try having a character that's unskilled in Perception try to find those hiding doppleganger assassins.&nbsp; The trained guy might do it, but the untrained guy is very unlikely to.In other words, that bonus is there to cover the mundane stuff that comes up early in the game and then gets glossed over later on.&nbsp; At 1st level, a 20 foot pit is a big deal.&nbsp; At 15th level, it's a speedbump.Whether that's a good or a bad thing depends on your tastes I suppose.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5430237, member: 22779"] On the point of 4e skills getting better. Yes, you gain half your level to skills. Think about that for a second in game terms. Remember that in 4e, stat bonuses are pretty hard to come by. It's not like you pick up +2 or +4 stat bonus items all that easily. And even skill bonus items are fairly limited. So, the bonus that you have to an untrained skill isn't going to be a whole lot more than that 1/2 level bonus. Particularly if you're using standard point buy characters. It's not unusual to have a skill with no stat bonus at all. The DC's for skill checks do go up faster than 1/2 per level do they not? I don't have the errata in front of me, so, i'm not entirely sure of the exact numbers, but, while a 1/2 level skill might cover an easy difficulty with reasonable odds, a hard difficulty would be out of reach of an unskilled character. So, yup, my wizard gets marginally better at climbing stuff as he goes up levels. At 1st level, his spindly little arms just won't get him up that wall. At 30th level, he can climb that wall pretty easily. Of course, by 30th level, what the heck am I doing trying to climb that same wall? My point in all this is that the issue is a bit more nuanced than BryonD is presenting. It's not like the unskilled character can automatically do everyting. Being unskilled means you're going to fail a lot. Try having a character that's unskilled in Perception try to find those hiding doppleganger assassins. The trained guy might do it, but the untrained guy is very unlikely to. In other words, that bonus is there to cover the mundane stuff that comes up early in the game and then gets glossed over later on. At 1st level, a 20 foot pit is a big deal. At 15th level, it's a speedbump. Whether that's a good or a bad thing depends on your tastes I suppose. [/QUOTE]

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