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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ProfessorCirno" data-source="post: 5432659" data-attributes="member: 65637">I think one problem is that previous editions gave such little narrative control to players that it trained them to not utilize it well.  In the 4e game I'm in, the players who's most recent game was another D&D edition don't really think outside the box too much.  Myself, and another player who was most recently playing FATE, do it all the time.Oh sure, we describe our attacks really flavorfully and RP and everything, but I think that, in order to really think outside the box, you have to come from a game / environment where that's really rewarded, and 3e at least didn't do that.In past - and the current, to some degree - D&D edition(s), thinking outside the box and trying to grab narrative control wasn't brought up.  It was a sort of unspoken option.  In many other games - most especially in FATE systems - it's the whole point of the game.  This is also probably where Salvatore brought up how 4e really needs creative players rather then creative DMs.  Even in powers, many powers really ask for players to set out the narrative rather then the DM or the rulebook - and, incidentally, those powers seem to be the most contentious with others.</blockquote>