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<blockquote data-quote="shadzar" data-source="post: 5435602" data-attributes="member: 6667746">Who said that? What is being discussed without crazy extremes, is the ability to tell stories in how they games differ and that 4th edition restricts story telling.Pre-4th you had your decisions to make up front, and the could tell the story you wanted with the character chosen from those restrictions.4th you design some character with all the bells and whistles, but then get constrained in what story you can tell via magical non-magic overnight healing, and though never stealing a thing you get better at stealing things.I can make all kinds of accusations against 4th edition that will have mods bleeding text all over this thread, including but not limited to thinking it isnt a good roleplaying game.What is being said is where you get to tell the story.Pre-4th you get to tell the story AS you play, while with 4th you have to piece a story together AFTER you have played something out.That is the crux of the argument, not whether 4th is a roleplaying game or not.When discussing a change to a game, you have to look at those kind of focuses within the game to see that they changed, and try to figure out why.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="shadzar, post: 5435602, member: 6667746"] Who said that? What is being discussed without crazy extremes, is the ability to tell stories in how they games differ and that 4th edition restricts story telling. Pre-4th you had your decisions to make up front, and the could tell the story you wanted with the character chosen from those restrictions. 4th you design some character with all the bells and whistles, but then get constrained in what story you can tell via magical non-magic overnight healing, and though never stealing a thing you get better at stealing things. I can make all kinds of accusations against 4th edition that will have mods bleeding text all over this thread, including but not limited to thinking it isnt a good roleplaying game. What is being said is where you get to tell the story. [I]Pre-4th you get to tell the story AS you play, while with 4th you have to piece a story together AFTER you have played something out.[/I] That is the crux of the argument, not whether 4th is a roleplaying game or not. When discussing a change to a game, you have to look at those kind of focuses within the game to see that they changed, and try to figure out why. [/QUOTE]

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