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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5436818" data-attributes="member: 22779">Shadzar, first off, it's very difficult to have this conversation when you insist on failings in the mechanics when it's pretty obvious you have very little idea of what the mechanics actually are.  It's like arguing how bad a certain make of car is when you've never driven it, never seen it, and are only going on third hand reports by people who also have never driven it or seen it.First.  Bull Rush is a specific maneuver.  It does no damage.  All it does is move a target.  Specific powers with push mechanics sometimes include a shift and other times don't.  Depending on the power, you can push the target away (possibly further than 1 square) and on others, other effects will occur.  Let's not forget that there are quite literally around a hundred different effects for each class spread over 30 levels.  Some are pretty similar, and others are not.  The effects will be broadly grouped by the class' role - striker, defender, whatnot, although there is some cross pollination as well.  For example, a warlock (a striker) has a number of controllery type powers - forced movement, debuffs, that sort of thing.Also keep in mind that every character has a pretty lenghty shopping list of effects to choose from.  By 5th level, you have a bare minimum of 7 powers, plus class abilities to choose from, at least two of which are generally usable out of combat.  This number will only increase as you go up levels.  And, these choices are in addition to basic maneuvers available to everyone, and to skills and magic items.Lack of choices is not really a valid criticism for 4e.  You typically have a boatload of choices, all mechanically defined.  That's not counting thinking outside the box and trying to do stuff that isn't specifically described, such as tapping locks with a spoon.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Yes, if you use a specific power, that power will have specific mechanical effects.  Again, this is no different than any other edition - if a wizard casts a spell, if a bard uses a class ability, if the fighter swings a weapon, these are all specifically, mechanically defined.Even adding in things like called shots from 2e are still specifically defined.  You try to perform the specific called shot, you take either a -4 or -8 (for a head shot) penalty to your attack and a successful attack has a specified effect (Complete Fighter's Handbook has the details).  Where D&D did allow for narrative control was in places where there were no mechanics at all.  Social interactions in 1e and 2e, for example, had very little mechanical resolution beyond some very basic Charisma checks.  If you wanted to bluff the guard, you had to talk to your DM and your DM determined by fiat (mostly) whether the guard believed you or not.Since 3e, we've had mechanics for that same interaction.  Most RPG's now have social interaction mechanics of one sort or another for a variety of reasons.  Whether you like those reasons or not is a matter of personal taste.</blockquote>

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