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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5437004" data-attributes="member: 957">Certainly there is a ton of freedom on the creation end.&nbsp; But once you get into play, you have what you picked.&nbsp; &nbsp;Limits?&nbsp; I don't see that.&nbsp; It in no way limits options, it just limits the quality of the mechanical simulation of many options.&nbsp; You can choose from the same infinite universe under either system.&nbsp; But when the mechanics lead, the further the choice falls from the mechanical expectation, the less quality the result has.&nbsp; Of course you can avoid that by being careful to choose options that fit.&nbsp; But now we are to the difference between having your options limited and having the mechanics bias the options.&nbsp;And, as so often happens, we get to the root of it.&nbsp; To coin a phrase, &quot;there's your problem&quot;.If your group can't get past this, then the cruch of pop quiz gaming probably *IS* better for you.&nbsp; But, by your own words, without that you just went to simple roll to hit and do x damage.&nbsp; You are not comparing what CAN be to what 4E is, you are just comparing next to nothing to 4E.&nbsp; Trust me, if you can bring the color and compexity without the mechanics leading you, the value goes to the next level.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 5437004, member: 957"] Certainly there is a ton of freedom on the creation end. But once you get into play, you have what you picked. Limits? I don't see that. It in no way limits options, it just limits the quality of the mechanical simulation of many options. You can choose from the same infinite universe under either system. But when the mechanics lead, the further the choice falls from the mechanical expectation, the less quality the result has. Of course you can avoid that by being careful to choose options that fit. But now we are to the difference between having your options limited and having the mechanics bias the options. And, as so often happens, we get to the root of it. To coin a phrase, "there's your problem". If your group can't get past this, then the cruch of pop quiz gaming probably *IS* better for you. But, by your own words, without that you just went to simple roll to hit and do x damage. You are not comparing what CAN be to what 4E is, you are just comparing next to nothing to 4E. Trust me, if you can bring the color and compexity without the mechanics leading you, the value goes to the next level. [/QUOTE]

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