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<blockquote data-quote="MoogleEmpMog" data-source="post: 2109248" data-attributes="member: 22882">I disagree that clerics are the most powerful class in 3.5 - in 3.0, yes, but the druid is now leagues beyond even the cleric.&nbsp; I run an essentially no-magic game and allowed druids to trade all their spellcasting for one aditional wild shape beginning at 2nd level - the druid player, who is far from an expert tactian, is simply superior to the rest of the party in and out of combat.And, of course, the druid is traditionally known as the LEAST popular base class, even less than the cleric.&nbsp; I don't think the two are unrelated. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> As to why players drift away from the cleric class, I'd say there are several factors.Flavor-wise, a LOT of gamers I've known hold views that make them dislike clerics; those views aren't suitable for ENWorld, but suffice to say that they negatively impact those players' interest in playing a servant of a god in any but a sarcasting manner.&nbsp; On the flip side, some actually religious people are uncomfortable roleplaying a polytheistic priest.Rules-wise, most gamers don't like healing because it takes them &quot;out of the action.&quot;&nbsp; Only last-second saves are &quot;star time,&quot; and those aren't encouraged by the rules until Heal becomes available.Magic the Gathering illustrates a reason for tactically astute players to dislike the healer role.&nbsp; In that game, life gain is generally a very weak tactic because it just stops you from losing - it doesn't help you win unless the combo goes infinite and your opponent folds rather than trying to chip away at your 999999999999999 life.D&amp;D &quot;life gain&quot; (healing) never &quot;goes infinite&quot; - spells are heavily restricted, and you generally can't get above your max hp.&nbsp; Thus, healing spells are, nine times out of ten, HURTING THE PARTY if used in combat.Replacing the healer cleric with, say, a blaster sorcerer who can spam rays and remove the enemy's ability to do harm is more useful in the course of a single combat.&nbsp; The healer cleric is only useful out of combat, where his spells serve the role of &quot;restoring the player to 20 life for the next match&quot; in Magic - something so boring and uninteresting that most games other than RPGs omit it entirely.3.x D&amp;D is designed not as a single match but as an average of four matches before reset.&nbsp; The optimal tactics for PCs are all about resource management (card advantage in Magic) rather than hitting power.&nbsp; The PCs succeed (and the players &quot;win&quot;) when they optimize their use of resources (spells, limited use items and hit points) to lose the least amount possible over three to five encounters per day.Even so, &quot;burn&quot; (save-or-dies, high damage attacks) and &quot;card advantage&quot; (summons, unlimited use magic items, regeneration) end up being more valuable than &quot;life gain&quot; (healing).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MoogleEmpMog, post: 2109248, member: 22882"] I disagree that clerics are the most powerful class in 3.5 - in 3.0, yes, but the druid is now leagues beyond even the cleric. I run an essentially no-magic game and allowed druids to trade all their spellcasting for one aditional wild shape beginning at 2nd level - the druid player, who is far from an expert tactian, is simply superior to the rest of the party in and out of combat. And, of course, the druid is traditionally known as the LEAST popular base class, even less than the cleric. I don't think the two are unrelated. :D As to why players drift away from the cleric class, I'd say there are several factors. Flavor-wise, a LOT of gamers I've known hold views that make them dislike clerics; those views aren't suitable for ENWorld, but suffice to say that they negatively impact those players' interest in playing a servant of a god in any but a sarcasting manner. On the flip side, some actually religious people are uncomfortable roleplaying a polytheistic priest. Rules-wise, most gamers don't like healing because it takes them "out of the action." Only last-second saves are "star time," and those aren't encouraged by the rules until Heal becomes available. Magic the Gathering illustrates a reason for tactically astute players to dislike the healer role. In that game, life gain is generally a very weak tactic because it just stops you from losing - it doesn't help you win unless the combo goes infinite and your opponent folds rather than trying to chip away at your 999999999999999 life. D&D "life gain" (healing) never "goes infinite" - spells are heavily restricted, and you generally can't get above your max hp. Thus, healing spells are, nine times out of ten, HURTING THE PARTY if used in combat. Replacing the healer cleric with, say, a blaster sorcerer who can spam rays and remove the enemy's ability to do harm is more useful in the course of a single combat. The healer cleric is only useful out of combat, where his spells serve the role of "restoring the player to 20 life for the next match" in Magic - something so boring and uninteresting that most games other than RPGs omit it entirely. 3.x D&D is designed not as a single match but as an average of four matches before reset. The optimal tactics for PCs are all about resource management (card advantage in Magic) rather than hitting power. The PCs succeed (and the players "win") when they optimize their use of resources (spells, limited use items and hit points) to lose the least amount possible over three to five encounters per day. Even so, "burn" (save-or-dies, high damage attacks) and "card advantage" (summons, unlimited use magic items, regeneration) end up being more valuable than "life gain" (healing). [/QUOTE]

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