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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 1230742" data-attributes="member: 151">That's what magic items are for. Mind you, if all the party can look forward to is demons, devils and slaad, then the rogue player either needs to rethink her style, or get a different character. Evil outsiders are cleric/wizard fodder in some many ways, it's ridiculous. That said, she has two ways to go, depending on where she feels the pain of inefficency, IMHO. One, she can become a specialist fighter. Setting up flanks, attacking to aid, performing feints, grapples and hamstrings. She won't be the center of attention or the one to land the killing blow...but she will be the one to enable it to happen. Giving the fighter an effective +4 to attack is nothing to sneeze at. Scouting ahead stealthily can protect the party and radically change the outcome of a battle. Zombies lying wait ahead, prepared to ambush the group? Thanks to the rogue, you know they're there. Lever to close the gate just behind that beholder? The rogue can tumble there. The second option is to become the party toolbox and monkey wrench. With access to Use Magic Device and some ingenuity, the rogue can become a wildcard in any fight. The cleric's down and out? The rogue can revive her with a wand or scroll. The golem requires a password or it'll attack? Time to decipher script or bluff. Want to fool an attacking monster? I simple wand of Silent Image and a good bluff check will do the trick. Confuse and inflitrate the enemy ranks with an alter-self, a bluff and some acting. To say nothing of crazy combat options. When your chance of hitting is low, you try different options, like Thunderstones, Tanglefoot bags and other unusal tactics. High-level characters face lots of Dispels and anti-magic fields....who do you think's going to have the tindertwig or sun rod when the lights go out? Who's going to have that flask of oil, vial of holy water, potion of spider climb? Low cost utility items and a little creative thinking (especially when coupled with high skill numbers) equals fun. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> The rogue only has ONE unique class feature, and that is the ability to disarm magical traps. What she can do exceedingly well, however, is to fill any of a number of roles within the group, not the least of which is scout. Plenty of high-level creatures have See Invisible or True Seeing as a natural at-will ability...but far fewer of them have blindsight. A smart rogue takes advantage of that fact. Personally, I would think that if you're going to require the players to fulfill certain roles, you should make sure that you've set aside certain challenges to allow each player a chance to highlight their abilities. If you're not, then you should consider not forcing them into said roles. It's possible that part of the problem may be that she may be using the rogue like a sneaky fighter, as opposed to like a rogue, and then having her expectations fall when the rogue doesn't work as expected...but I have no idea if that's the case or not.  Speak for yourself, son.  In games I run, the bard is a valued party member.  In the most recent RtToEE game, the bard used bluff to try and convince a Chuul that they were members of the water temple (and if combat hadn't already started it would have succeeded).  In dungeon or out, social skills come into play, unless DM and players choose not to use them.</blockquote>

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