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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 8402427" data-attributes="member: 6855114">Much more rested. Sorry if my reply was a bit more slappy than usual. It was not my intention.A trope, is not THE trope. It is one of many possible. The fun thing with D&D is that you can use one, two, three or gazillion and it doesn't matter one iota. There are ways to make them work together with one an other without even scratching your heads on how. Gygax found one, and I am sure you can find one by yourself without throwing one set of beings down the drain. So wheter you like it or not, it is a solution. Maybe not the solution you want but it is a solution nonetheless.As for the bolded part.What do we gain indeed. A lot of possibilities. Much more than if everything that has a name on it in the plane can be a god. By wanting to usurp gods' powers the demons and devils are effectively creating wars. They are numerous, endless but they are still bound by cosmological laws either given by the gods or by some other Overlord of the Gods (i.e. Ao in the FR and if you read the novels, you know that even Ao has an Overlord too.). And since that Overlord (i.e Ao) is present, then it makes sense that the Gods do have their own laws to obey... At which point do mortals get to interact with higher and higher beings? The Immortal set of BCEMI told us what it was all about.In resumé for the Immortal Set which brought a lot of lights to our games. It does, afterall, litterally make you play gods (ok immortals, but in the OD&D it basically amount to same thing.)The first set of immortal beings (and my views on how they should translate in D&D) are the Initiate (Basically the quasi deities, demon-lords, arch-devils and other non true gods.Temporals (Novice, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th) This is where you get your demi god and lesser gods. Celestials (Novice, 1-4) This is where you get the major and greater gods.Empyreals (Novice, 1-4) (Ao?)Eternal (Novice, 1-4) (the devs knows what from this point on...)and you even have higher immortalsHierarch (Novice 1-4)And Full Hierarch.Note: In the Immortal set, demons are fully immortal beings with PP. The above is just an approximation we did for D&D. It is by no means something official but the ranks are.In terms of power, the lowest temporal has about 500 PP. Each PP can be used to cast or create spell like effect with 1 PP for a spell level or its equivalent. And this can be in addition to its own spell casting ability (if any). Imagine a 36th level wizards being a god... To show the difference, A Full Hierarch has 15,000. And they can create avatars over that...In that expansion, immortals/gods can use PP to fuel spells, but it is also a currency with which they barter their actions. The more power you put in joepardy, the greater the gain, but the less you have for other challenges and personnal defense.Example: In a game, a group of evil immortals came to the players and started a claim on a region where the players had set a religion going for them. The claim was control of the whole region by either the forces of evil or good. PP were placed has a bet and players opted to have a group of heroes to foil the plans of the evil immortals. It was the most cost effective. So they went back in time, got the mothers of our heroes to be met their respective husbands, use PP to make sure that the group would meet. Placed challenge (adventures modules, homebrew and whatever) on the path of the group and placed a few "key" magic items to be found by the heroes. Then their champion would raise to 14th level and fight the forces of darkness. And the way to do it, you guessed it, was to play this group heroes.All this to show that there are interaction between the various mythos, gods and even aspiring gods such as demons and devils. Removing one of the other is fine. But the RP opportunities loss are greater than the gain in doing so IMHO.</blockquote>

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