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The Role and Purpose of Evil Gods
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8403193" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>What are you even talking about? No one is talking about how we need only a single pantheon. Nothing you are talking about has anything to do with the discussion at hand.</p><p></p><p>And yes, you can have great games with a variety of structures, but that wasn't the question. The question is "what is the role and purpose of evil gods" with the understanding that this is being asked as opposed to just using Archdevils and Demon Lords. The fact that you can have a campaign focused on pantheons going to war has nothing to do with that question.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Huh? Are you trying to convince me that Nerull is... passive? That he doesn't go out and do anything to achieve his goals? At that point I don't care about being a neutral cleric (which, again, you can be a neutral warlock of Orcus too) but that he is utterly boring. </p><p></p><p>But since he creates clerics and charges them with holy missions... like ending all life. I think you are splitting an non-existent hair.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So... they existed. Which means that the statement that they never existed is still wrong. We can theorize that if the warlock existed when it didn't exist that things might be different, but we don't know that. Because at that time the warlock didn't exist. They were clerics instead.</p><p></p><p>Also, in the sources I listed for 3.X where the clerics got their power, there was no limit on cleric spells. Additionally, "Yes, they get clerics, but they are weaker than adventurers" is kind of a moot point. Most people are weaker than adventurers. Getting a 3rd level spell means being 5th level, and that is significant. </p><p></p><p>And now that a cleric powered by their faith in an abstract concept isn't limited to 1st and 2nd level spells max, there is no reason to assume that the same would hold true now. Especially since we can... you know... change that. Especially since if the entire reason evil gods exist is so that we can have 5th level evil clerics... we don't need them, because the cleric who worships the concept of slaughter does just as well as the one who worships erythunul.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Thank you for confirming I was right.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So what is the purpose of Nerull, Bane, Erythunul, Hextor, ect ect ect. They fight the gods too, is it because they want the power of gods? No. It is because they want to destroy their rivals. </p><p></p><p>The only reason we are talking about the power difference between gods and Archdevils and Demon Lords is because people say that the reason we need evil gods is because they are more powerful than Archdevils and Demon Lords. As though Asmodeus is such a push-over that you need super Asmodeus with even more powers to stand as an even greater threat. </p><p></p><p>But, is that the only reason these evil gods exist? to be bigger sticks to the already immensely powerful evil beings? </p><p></p><p>Thinking it through, if you made all of the evil Gods not tied to a racial pantheon some version of Archdevil or Demon Lord, and allowed them to have clerics.... you lose nothing. Though, you would be even more inundated with copies. No one has actually given a solid reasoning for these things to exist except to decry taking them away because that "limits our options". But, the OP is making a homebrew world and WANTS to limit options. So if the biggest concern is that getting rid of evil gods means they got rid of evils gods... that isn't a big concern.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8403193, member: 6801228"] What are you even talking about? No one is talking about how we need only a single pantheon. Nothing you are talking about has anything to do with the discussion at hand. And yes, you can have great games with a variety of structures, but that wasn't the question. The question is "what is the role and purpose of evil gods" with the understanding that this is being asked as opposed to just using Archdevils and Demon Lords. The fact that you can have a campaign focused on pantheons going to war has nothing to do with that question. Huh? Are you trying to convince me that Nerull is... passive? That he doesn't go out and do anything to achieve his goals? At that point I don't care about being a neutral cleric (which, again, you can be a neutral warlock of Orcus too) but that he is utterly boring. But since he creates clerics and charges them with holy missions... like ending all life. I think you are splitting an non-existent hair. So... they existed. Which means that the statement that they never existed is still wrong. We can theorize that if the warlock existed when it didn't exist that things might be different, but we don't know that. Because at that time the warlock didn't exist. They were clerics instead. Also, in the sources I listed for 3.X where the clerics got their power, there was no limit on cleric spells. Additionally, "Yes, they get clerics, but they are weaker than adventurers" is kind of a moot point. Most people are weaker than adventurers. Getting a 3rd level spell means being 5th level, and that is significant. And now that a cleric powered by their faith in an abstract concept isn't limited to 1st and 2nd level spells max, there is no reason to assume that the same would hold true now. Especially since we can... you know... change that. Especially since if the entire reason evil gods exist is so that we can have 5th level evil clerics... we don't need them, because the cleric who worships the concept of slaughter does just as well as the one who worships erythunul. Thank you for confirming I was right. So what is the purpose of Nerull, Bane, Erythunul, Hextor, ect ect ect. They fight the gods too, is it because they want the power of gods? No. It is because they want to destroy their rivals. The only reason we are talking about the power difference between gods and Archdevils and Demon Lords is because people say that the reason we need evil gods is because they are more powerful than Archdevils and Demon Lords. As though Asmodeus is such a push-over that you need super Asmodeus with even more powers to stand as an even greater threat. But, is that the only reason these evil gods exist? to be bigger sticks to the already immensely powerful evil beings? Thinking it through, if you made all of the evil Gods not tied to a racial pantheon some version of Archdevil or Demon Lord, and allowed them to have clerics.... you lose nothing. Though, you would be even more inundated with copies. No one has actually given a solid reasoning for these things to exist except to decry taking them away because that "limits our options". But, the OP is making a homebrew world and WANTS to limit options. So if the biggest concern is that getting rid of evil gods means they got rid of evils gods... that isn't a big concern. [/QUOTE]
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