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General Tabletop Discussion
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The Role and Purpose of Evil Gods
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8404057" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Here is the opening sentence of the second paragraph in the article on Bane in Dragon 372 (which is about the core 4e god of that name):</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">That Bane is a god of darkest ambition, tyrannical and cruel, none can doubt.</p><p></p><p>The DMG (p 162) tells us that Asmodeus is the god of <em>power</em>,<em> domination </em>and <em>tyranny</em>, while Bane is the god of <em>war</em> and <em>conquest</em>. What is the meaningful difference between <em>exercising tyrannical power</em> and <em>conquering</em>? I don't think any 4e book ever tackled that philosophical question!</p><p></p><p>On the same page we are told that</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Asmodeus . . . rules the Nine Hells with an iron fist and a silver tongue. . . His rules are strict and his punishments harsh:</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <ul style="margin-left: 20px"> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Seek power over others, that you might rule with strength as the Lord of Hell does.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Repay evil with evil. If others are kind to you, exploit their weakness for your own gain.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Show neither pity nor mercy to those who are caught underfoot as you climb your way to power. The weak do not deserve compassion.</li> </ul><p></p><p>And also that</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Bane is the evil god of war and conquest. Militaristic nations of humans and goblins serve him and conquer in his name. . . . He commands his worshipers to:</p> <ul style="margin-left: 20px"> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Never allow your fear to gain mastery over you, but drive it into the hearts of your foes.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Punish insubordination and disorder.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hone your combat skills to perfection, whether you are a mighty general or a lone mercenary.</li> </ul><p></p><p>What is the difference between <em>ruling with might</em> and <em>punishing insubordination and disorder</em>? I can't see it. The difference I see is that Asmodeus is more vicious (<em>repay evil with evil</em>; <em>exploit the weakness of those who are kind to you</em>) whereas Bane only <em>drives fear into the hearts of foes</em> but doesn't necessarily use it as a ubiquitous tool of interaction; and Bane is also more concerned with warfare and military endeavour. But those differences don't go to <em>tyranny</em> as a mode of government. And nothing suggests that Bane is more inclined than Asmodeus to <em>show pity or mercy</em>.</p><p></p><p>This is not a criticism of the 4e setting: I've used it extensively, and the relationship between Bane and various devils was a part of my campaign (and I think at least some of that was influenced by published material, though some I made up myself). But I think [USER=6801228]@Chaosmancer[/USER] is correct to see Bane and Asmodeus as treading on one another's toes!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8404057, member: 42582"] Here is the opening sentence of the second paragraph in the article on Bane in Dragon 372 (which is about the core 4e god of that name): [INDENT]That Bane is a god of darkest ambition, tyrannical and cruel, none can doubt.[/INDENT] The DMG (p 162) tells us that Asmodeus is the god of [I]power[/I],[I] domination [/I]and [I]tyranny[/I], while Bane is the god of [I]war[/I] and [I]conquest[/I]. What is the meaningful difference between [I]exercising tyrannical power[/I] and [I]conquering[/I]? I don't think any 4e book ever tackled that philosophical question! On the same page we are told that [indent]Asmodeus . . . rules the Nine Hells with an iron fist and a silver tongue. . . His rules are strict and his punishments harsh: [LIST] [*]Seek power over others, that you might rule with strength as the Lord of Hell does. [*]Repay evil with evil. If others are kind to you, exploit their weakness for your own gain. [*]Show neither pity nor mercy to those who are caught underfoot as you climb your way to power. The weak do not deserve compassion. [/LIST] [/indent] And also that [indent]Bane is the evil god of war and conquest. Militaristic nations of humans and goblins serve him and conquer in his name. . . . He commands his worshipers to: [LIST] [*]Never allow your fear to gain mastery over you, but drive it into the hearts of your foes. [*]Punish insubordination and disorder. [*]Hone your combat skills to perfection, whether you are a mighty general or a lone mercenary. [/LIST] [/indent] What is the difference between [I]ruling with might[/I] and [I]punishing insubordination and disorder[/I]? I can't see it. The difference I see is that Asmodeus is more vicious ([I]repay evil with evil[/I]; [I]exploit the weakness of those who are kind to you[/I]) whereas Bane only [I]drives fear into the hearts of foes[/I] but doesn't necessarily use it as a ubiquitous tool of interaction; and Bane is also more concerned with warfare and military endeavour. But those differences don't go to [I]tyranny[/I] as a mode of government. And nothing suggests that Bane is more inclined than Asmodeus to [I]show pity or mercy[/I]. This is not a criticism of the 4e setting: I've used it extensively, and the relationship between Bane and various devils was a part of my campaign (and I think at least some of that was influenced by published material, though some I made up myself). But I think [USER=6801228]@Chaosmancer[/USER] is correct to see Bane and Asmodeus as treading on one another's toes! [/QUOTE]
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