NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8404784" data-attributes="member: 6801228">The thorny part of this discussion is that there have been at least three distinct “eras” where certain things were true. Yes, in the earliest days when these beings were first created, the clerics of Demon Lords and Archdevils were limited in their ability to cast higher level spells. But, at least by 3.5 according to the Fiendish Codex’s I quoted, that was no longer the case. They were explicitly allowed high level spell access. Now, in 5e, there is some confusion on the issue. Because a cleric of Asmodeus or Orcus wouldn’t be limited in spells, but it maybe argued that they are drawing power from a philosophy, not the being itself,It is supported that “gods” in 3.5 had limited omniscience. They could see anything within X miles of their temples or worshippers. The exact value ranged depending on the power of the god in question. I don’t remember the exact details, or if this applied to Demon Lords as well.One reason I haven’t been discussing Exandria too much is because I’m uncertain if they actually have Demon Lords. I know that Asmodeus is a god there, and I know Orcus existed in the campaign, but I don’t know if Orcus was also a god or how he was considered in relation.I guess the question is far trickier than we imagined though. Because in every single world where Bane exists for certain (skipping Ravenloft because as you said, uncertain) Asmodeus is ALSO a god. And I don’t think his personal power has ever shifted. Which brings us to a conundrum.Asmodeus is a god in at least two settings, same as Bane. And yet, the forces of the Demons and Demon Lords are a legitimate threat to his power, as considered by the Blood War. So, if Orcus or Demogorgon are roughly his equals in power, and Asmodeus is a god at least twice… it makes saying that the gods are obviously more powerful than Archdevils and Demon Lords a bit hard to justify. Additionally, even if we take out the Blood War, we have the issues of Levistus, Beezelbub and other Archdevils who threaten to take over from Asmodeus. Yes, we say that they are clearly not a match for him, but that isn’t because of his overwhelming power, but instead because they can’t outsmart him.So, how do we justify “the gods are more powerful” in this dynamic? That’s my question.If Asmodeus is a fellow god, then how can Bane easily kill him? We have yet to see a world where they are not both considered gods, according to previous discussions. And how is Asmodeus retaining control and influence in countless realms if he is weaker than a god who can’t even conquer a continent?And on the notion of Pride, what about Asmodeus’ pride? He is the unquestioned ruler of the Nine Hells, why would he allow some god who can barely reach past his homeworld to challenge him?The power dynamics here are bizarre, but I think that is only because we keep insisting that<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Gods must be more powerful</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Archdevils and Demon Lords act in the multiverse, while gods are limited to their worlds.</li> </ol></blockquote>

Verification