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<blockquote data-quote="Doug McCrae" data-source="post: 8405752" data-attributes="member: 21169"><p><em>This post consists of quotations from AD&D 2e and D&D 3e/3.5 on the subject of the source of spells for clerics who worship demon lords and archdevils. They mostly, with two exceptions, repeat the same idea – such clerics exist, they can cast spells, but the power source is really a god or an evil outer plane. They’re consistent with [USER=2209]@Voadam[/USER]<em>’</em>s quotation from 3e Book of Vile Darkness (2002) upthread.</em></p><p></p><p><strong>"The Lords of the Nine", Dragon #223 (1995):</strong></p><p></p><p>The Lords [archdevils] gains power from mortal worshipers, just as a god would, though he cannot grant spells. Still, the devotion of mortals is a powerful thing, and it's something Lords covet. It's said that that's the reason the Lords even bother to trifle with mortals at all.</p><p></p><p>The only problem is this: How do these cults retain worshipers if there's no evidence that they've got power? That's where the politics of expediency come in. Before establishing a priesthood on the Prime, the Lord usually has to perform a favor for one of the powers of Baator [gods who reside in the Nine Hells]. In return (and usually in return for some of the power gained from the ceremonies), the power sends along some of his rituals to the mortal priest.</p><p></p><p><strong>D&D 3e Manual of the Planes (2001):</strong></p><p></p><p>Asmodeus is at the very least an archdevil, but he could possess the power of a true deity.</p><p></p><p><strong>D&D 3e Deities & Demigods (2002):</strong></p><p></p><p>The default assumption of the D&D game is that, while powerful outsider and elemental lords exist, they are not gods, and they cannot grant spells to clerics the way deities do. Though they are powerful and often revered by those who share their alignment, they reach no higher than divine rank 0. The demon prince Yeenoghu is a classic example: He is revered by gnoll clerics, but the god Erythnul actually grants them their spells. Yeenoghu acts simply as a go-between, a patron of the gnolls and a loyal servant of Erythnul.</p><p></p><p>In an alternate cosmology, however, it may be important to allow these figures to grant spells. If evil clerics are to exist in a world dominated by a monotheistic religion with a good deity, they must have a source for their spells. In such a campaign, the demon princes and archdevils, as well as other elemental and outsider lords, may achieve divine rank 1 or higher, though they should not rise higher than demigod status (divine rank 5). Making them actual deities, however, means that the religion is not strictly monotheistic, since there are now multiple deities in the religion. If only one such evil deity exists, the religion is dualistic. If there are more than one, you have created a loose pantheon.</p><p></p><p>The alternative is to maintain these powerful creatures at divine rank 0 but give them the special ability to grant spells to their servants. If you want to limit this ability in some way, you can allow them to grant access to only a single domain, handicapping the demon-worshipers in a minor way when compared to clerics of the "true faith." This approach better maintains the feel of a monotheistic religion in the game.</p><p></p><p><strong>D&D 3.5 Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss (2006):</strong></p><p></p><p>Clerics who worship demon lords cast spells in the same way as other clerics do, but their Abyssal patrons do not directly grant them spells. Rather, the demon lord serves as a focus through which the cleric can access divine energy—his spells are in fact drawn from the chaos and evil of the Abyss itself.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Doug McCrae, post: 8405752, member: 21169"] [I]This post consists of quotations from AD&D 2e and D&D 3e/3.5 on the subject of the source of spells for clerics who worship demon lords and archdevils. They mostly, with two exceptions, repeat the same idea – such clerics exist, they can cast spells, but the power source is really a god or an evil outer plane. They’re consistent with [USER=2209]@Voadam[/USER][I]’[/I]s quotation from 3e Book of Vile Darkness (2002) upthread.[/I] [B]"The Lords of the Nine", Dragon #223 (1995):[/B] The Lords [archdevils] gains power from mortal worshipers, just as a god would, though he cannot grant spells. Still, the devotion of mortals is a powerful thing, and it's something Lords covet. It's said that that's the reason the Lords even bother to trifle with mortals at all. The only problem is this: How do these cults retain worshipers if there's no evidence that they've got power? That's where the politics of expediency come in. Before establishing a priesthood on the Prime, the Lord usually has to perform a favor for one of the powers of Baator [gods who reside in the Nine Hells]. In return (and usually in return for some of the power gained from the ceremonies), the power sends along some of his rituals to the mortal priest. [B]D&D 3e Manual of the Planes (2001):[/B] Asmodeus is at the very least an archdevil, but he could possess the power of a true deity. [B]D&D 3e Deities & Demigods (2002):[/B] The default assumption of the D&D game is that, while powerful outsider and elemental lords exist, they are not gods, and they cannot grant spells to clerics the way deities do. Though they are powerful and often revered by those who share their alignment, they reach no higher than divine rank 0. The demon prince Yeenoghu is a classic example: He is revered by gnoll clerics, but the god Erythnul actually grants them their spells. Yeenoghu acts simply as a go-between, a patron of the gnolls and a loyal servant of Erythnul. In an alternate cosmology, however, it may be important to allow these figures to grant spells. If evil clerics are to exist in a world dominated by a monotheistic religion with a good deity, they must have a source for their spells. In such a campaign, the demon princes and archdevils, as well as other elemental and outsider lords, may achieve divine rank 1 or higher, though they should not rise higher than demigod status (divine rank 5). Making them actual deities, however, means that the religion is not strictly monotheistic, since there are now multiple deities in the religion. If only one such evil deity exists, the religion is dualistic. If there are more than one, you have created a loose pantheon. The alternative is to maintain these powerful creatures at divine rank 0 but give them the special ability to grant spells to their servants. If you want to limit this ability in some way, you can allow them to grant access to only a single domain, handicapping the demon-worshipers in a minor way when compared to clerics of the "true faith." This approach better maintains the feel of a monotheistic religion in the game. [B]D&D 3.5 Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss (2006):[/B] Clerics who worship demon lords cast spells in the same way as other clerics do, but their Abyssal patrons do not directly grant them spells. Rather, the demon lord serves as a focus through which the cleric can access divine energy—his spells are in fact drawn from the chaos and evil of the Abyss itself. [/QUOTE]
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