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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8406155" data-attributes="member: 6801228">sighNo, I never said it "was not homebrew" OBVIOUSLY it is homebrew to remove evil gods, because they exist. Removing an existing thing is homebrewing. The part I've been discussing is the idea that they are "useful" as a category. And I want to make this clear, just because I've been using specific gods as an example, doesn't mean I am thinking about this in terms of specific gods. Obviously, there have been stories written using the existing structure, and removing gods from that structure affects that story. I've been looking at them as a category. And since we have shown quite a lot of evidence that they aren't the only source of clerics, that even the rules that state Demon Lords and Archdevils can't grant spells are caveated with "unless you want them to", and that they aren't necessarily more powerful... the conclusion seems to be that they are fairly redundant with Archfiends. And therefore their role can be handled just as easily by Archfiends. Keep Evil Gods if you want, make archfiends evil gods, make evil gods Archfiends, I don't particularly care, but the point has been to drill down for the difference, and it seems that the difference really hasn't been found.I am not trying to convince you to do anything. I am trying to show that the category of "Evil Gods" lacks something defining compared to "Archfiends" across editions. What you do with that information is your business.But that "considered" isn't for in-universe people, it is for the DM. DnD seems to want to create the illusion that "god" is a term that matters, that these beings aren't "gods" but that they are still capable of all the things "gods" are. The problem is, they have never made it clear what makes them special. Orcus was a mortal man once, so was Kelemvor. Both are now far more powerful than that. But the difference between what they became doesn't seem to exist unless you homebrew it to exist. And that's the point I've been trying to make.</blockquote>

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