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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Role and Purpose of Evil Gods
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<blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 8406445" data-attributes="member: 6855114"><p><strong>1st bolded part.</strong></p><p>And I consider that many showed you the exact opposite of what you "showed" us. The evil gods are in fact, far more meaningful than archdevils and demons as the later can grant spells only if optional rules are used. As soon as you use an optional rule, you homebrew.</p><p></p><p><strong>2nd bolded part.</strong></p><p>Again more or less wrong. In the Realms, Orcus started as mortal. In any other setting, he sprang into existence in the abyss. Spontaneously existing or, in 4ed, is a corrupted primordials. FR is homebrew too... Just like Greyhawk, Dragonlance (in which there are no demon lords and no arch devils by the way, so they're not always there) or any other setting. For this, we have to restrain to corebooks or books that take the general angle.</p><p></p><p><strong>On a more general take.</strong></p><p>Problem is that godhood can change from world to world and even editions to edition. If we keep to 5th edition per say, it will depend on which pantheon you take, homeworld and even which optional rule you take.</p><p></p><p>This is why that in an earlier post, I have started to wonder not about the relevance of archdevils or demon lords as gods but the relevance of the cleric themselves. If worshipping a concept is enough to have access to divine spells what is the purpose of the gods? Why have clerics in a party as Bards and Artificers can heal too (and bard can even take the raise dead and other spells as a secret so..)? Why go into the trappings of religion when your friendly bard can do exactly the same healing as your war/forge/light/(insert any domain save healing here) cleric can? And that character will be a bit more polyvalent, will not rely on a church or will not try to "convert" you to a religion you might not want to hear save for the healing... By removing the divine miracle aspect of healing, 5ed has more or less rendered the cleric a non necessary redundancy of an earlier age/system. This troubles me quite a lot. More than I thought so (now that I have a few hours of sleep... damn the nightshifts).</p><p></p><p>Heck, for all I now of what is written in the 5ed PHB, you could decide to worship the bunny in your barnyard and you'd get divine spells just by taking the cleric class? Is that really what we (or at least I) want?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Helldritch, post: 8406445, member: 6855114"] [B]1st bolded part.[/B] And I consider that many showed you the exact opposite of what you "showed" us. The evil gods are in fact, far more meaningful than archdevils and demons as the later can grant spells only if optional rules are used. As soon as you use an optional rule, you homebrew. [B]2nd bolded part.[/B] Again more or less wrong. In the Realms, Orcus started as mortal. In any other setting, he sprang into existence in the abyss. Spontaneously existing or, in 4ed, is a corrupted primordials. FR is homebrew too... Just like Greyhawk, Dragonlance (in which there are no demon lords and no arch devils by the way, so they're not always there) or any other setting. For this, we have to restrain to corebooks or books that take the general angle. [B]On a more general take.[/B] Problem is that godhood can change from world to world and even editions to edition. If we keep to 5th edition per say, it will depend on which pantheon you take, homeworld and even which optional rule you take. This is why that in an earlier post, I have started to wonder not about the relevance of archdevils or demon lords as gods but the relevance of the cleric themselves. If worshipping a concept is enough to have access to divine spells what is the purpose of the gods? Why have clerics in a party as Bards and Artificers can heal too (and bard can even take the raise dead and other spells as a secret so..)? Why go into the trappings of religion when your friendly bard can do exactly the same healing as your war/forge/light/(insert any domain save healing here) cleric can? And that character will be a bit more polyvalent, will not rely on a church or will not try to "convert" you to a religion you might not want to hear save for the healing... By removing the divine miracle aspect of healing, 5ed has more or less rendered the cleric a non necessary redundancy of an earlier age/system. This troubles me quite a lot. More than I thought so (now that I have a few hours of sleep... damn the nightshifts). Heck, for all I now of what is written in the 5ed PHB, you could decide to worship the bunny in your barnyard and you'd get divine spells just by taking the cleric class? Is that really what we (or at least I) want? [/QUOTE]
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