Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Role and Purpose of Evil Gods
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8408751" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I don't own any of that material, and I've never read it. It doesn't change what is written - or not written - in the MotP.</p><p></p><p>For someone like me, who in the latter part of the 1980s owns the A&D hardbacks and a dozen or so Dragon Magazines, who is more compelling as a figure to be worshipped by appropriate NPCs: Orcus, or Kossoth? I know what my answer was!</p><p></p><p>Where in the texts would I find the least suggestion that Orcus is not able to have cults, grant spells etc but Kossoth is? Nowhere.</p><p></p><p>It's always possible to write later stuff that attempts to impose order and consistency on earlier material. That doesn't change what was said in the earlier material, though. And while it might create a consistent idea, it doesn't mean that everyone's ideas are consistent.</p><p></p><p>Which goes back to my core assertion in this thread: over the lifetime of D&D, when one reads the published works, there has been no consistent contrast drawn between evil gods and entities such as Orcus, Tiamat in her AD&D MM/3E MotP version, etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The redundancy is in respect of their position, in the fiction, as gods and cults - ie <em>nothing turns on any supposed difference </em>between Hextor being a god and Asmodeus being an archdevil. We could choose for Hextor to be a devil and Asmodeus to be a god and <em>nothing in those scenarios would need to change</em>. (And indeed, in those two scenarios, we could swap the two beings and nothing would need to change either.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Tiamat and Lolth are, indeed, a bit more different than Hextor and Asmodeus. But my point is that nothing turns on whether they are fiends, gods, unique lords of dragonkind, or whatever other label one wishes to attach to them.</p><p></p><p>Which I think puts me in agreement with [USER=6801228]@Chaosmancer[/USER], and the OP, and maybe [USER=6915329]@Faolyn[/USER] (? I'm not sure about that last one, as Faolyn seems to have agreed with Chaosmancer about functional overlap/redundancy but still seems to be disagreeing about stuff that I'm not sure I fully follow).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8408751, member: 42582"] I don't own any of that material, and I've never read it. It doesn't change what is written - or not written - in the MotP. For someone like me, who in the latter part of the 1980s owns the A&D hardbacks and a dozen or so Dragon Magazines, who is more compelling as a figure to be worshipped by appropriate NPCs: Orcus, or Kossoth? I know what my answer was! Where in the texts would I find the least suggestion that Orcus is not able to have cults, grant spells etc but Kossoth is? Nowhere. It's always possible to write later stuff that attempts to impose order and consistency on earlier material. That doesn't change what was said in the earlier material, though. And while it might create a consistent idea, it doesn't mean that everyone's ideas are consistent. Which goes back to my core assertion in this thread: over the lifetime of D&D, when one reads the published works, there has been no consistent contrast drawn between evil gods and entities such as Orcus, Tiamat in her AD&D MM/3E MotP version, etc. The redundancy is in respect of their position, in the fiction, as gods and cults - ie [I]nothing turns on any supposed difference [/I]between Hextor being a god and Asmodeus being an archdevil. We could choose for Hextor to be a devil and Asmodeus to be a god and [I]nothing in those scenarios would need to change[/I]. (And indeed, in those two scenarios, we could swap the two beings and nothing would need to change either.) Tiamat and Lolth are, indeed, a bit more different than Hextor and Asmodeus. But my point is that nothing turns on whether they are fiends, gods, unique lords of dragonkind, or whatever other label one wishes to attach to them. Which I think puts me in agreement with [USER=6801228]@Chaosmancer[/USER], and the OP, and maybe [USER=6915329]@Faolyn[/USER] (? I'm not sure about that last one, as Faolyn seems to have agreed with Chaosmancer about functional overlap/redundancy but still seems to be disagreeing about stuff that I'm not sure I fully follow). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Role and Purpose of Evil Gods
Top