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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8408990" data-attributes="member: 23751">That's between you and him.  I'm not sure why you want to argue with me about it.Yes, there are.  At best you and [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] have found a few things that bring the lines closer together, but the fact remains that in most editions, the rules say that archfiends cannot grant spells unless the DM changes it.  I'm really not sure why you think that finding a very few examples of such changes in adventures and such think that it means that archfiend = god in all ways.  The rules are clear that they are not the same, even if they have similarities.  Even Pemerton is only arguing that those examples blur the lines.  Yes.  Those passages being the actual rules. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I just disagree with your position that they are redundant.  They are not.  Even if you assume some sort of deific equivalency, they still occupy different roles.  Archdevils exist to tempt mortals and collect souls that way, as well as rule layers of Hell, which takes a lot of time and effort.  They don't act like or want to be setting gods(excepting Asmodeus) and don't occupy those roles, even if you give them the same sort of portfolio.And you have failed.  They are not practically identical.  One side is focused on ruling planes, tempting mortals, fighting a blood war, and the bigger cosmic picture.  The other side is concerned with local power and how that power is focused on a specific plane. You can't change that even if you do assume that archfiends are all true gods.</blockquote>

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