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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Faolyn" data-source="post: 8409644" data-attributes="member: 6915329">You are expecting people to stick to a canon that doesn't actually exist, and then "Ah-ha"-ing them when you believe that they deviate from it.Perhaps those other people, like me, are trying to offer other options and opinions that are potentially useful, since there is no canon answer. But you chose to argue with us because you're expecting there to be some sort of since answer that applies to everyone, and there isn't.So, serious question, since I don't know from the Realms: how many times has an FR god tried to grab a portfolio that had nothing to do with their current portfolio and that doesn't align with their personalities? I have read about Cyric trying to grab Magic from Mystra or Midnight or whoever it was at the time. But Cyric (a) is evil and is all about causing strife, pain, (b) kind of insane, (c) wanted a lot of raw power, and few things are more powerful in the Realms than magic, and (d) may have really hated Midnight before their apotheoses (I'm unsure of the time line).I didn't say that he was never the god of dark magical secrets.First, you tried to claim that Vecna's portfolio overlaps with Wee Jas' and Boccob's and that this is... redundant, I guess. Even though Wee Jas is specifically a Suelian god and Boccob and Vecna aren't tied to any pantheons, and the Greyhawk world doesn't have any rules about redundant gods. I pointed out that despite what you think, there's very little redundancy in their portfolio. "Magic used to gain power" is different than "Magic needs to be always balanced" is different than "The secrets of magic must be kept secret."That is one way to do it. But it's not the only way. It's also not necessarily the most interesting way.Right here, right now, tell me: what is wrong with having "redundant" gods? Other than that you feel they're unnecessary.You're not debating anyone, though. You're demanding that people prove that their preferences are canon and then telling them they're wrong because they have a use for both evil gods and archfiends.In that version of the Forgotten Realms, yes. In fact, this is a very good reason for there to be redundancy, so that all of a thing doesn't vanish just because one god is killed. But this is not the way it's done in other settings. IIRC, Ao set it up so there can be one god of a thing at a time. That's not the case in other settings. It's barely even the case in the Realms when you consider non-human gods, like Thrym, god of cold, ice, and frost giants. Or, for that matter, any cold-oriented arch-fey or arch-fiends. There's probably even an Ithaqua-like GOO.So yeah, if you have a setting where killing a god means that its portfolio vanishes, then it makes sense for there to be multiple powers who can take up the slack should one of them die.So let's say that this is true. And then what? What does "disruption of the cosmic order" mean to you?Beats me. Ask them.Just like I'll ask you to show me that it's unlikely that there are going to be unclaimed portfolios. You've claimed to show overlap between gods but there hasn't been. Maybe you need to stop thinking so big (i.e., "Magic") and look at the nuances. "Magical knowledge" and "magical secrets" are actually different things. One's about the known, and uncovering the unknown. The other is about the unknown, and keeping it that way. They may center on the same thing, but their personalities shape their different portfolios.So far you haven't actually provided any evidence that supports your claims. Max, and others here, have.But above you're claiming that Max is saying that everyone should be abiding by this canonical answer, and here you're telling me he would say that no, people don't have to abide by this answer.(See, here's an ah-ha! moment.)The god of paladins is the god of paladins.Just like Caoimhin, the killmoulis god of food, doesn't cover farms, ranches, slaughterhouses, breweries, or even kitchens, despite the fact that each of those things are necessary to make food. He's just the god of food (and shy friendship and comfort--he's kinda adorbs). If that still doesn't convince you, take a look at paladins now, in 5e. If Heironeous is still the god of paladins, then he's as much the god of Vengeance and Conquest paladins as he is the god of Devotion paladins. Do you think that either Vengeance or Conquest pallys care about honesty? It's not in their oath. Heck, honesty isn't even part of the oath of the Redemption paladins, and they're probably the goodest paladins.So, did Heironeous' portfolio change? Is he only the god of some paladins? Or did he never care as much about honesty, because that was only one aspect of his actual portfolio, which is paladins?(The PHB says Heironeous is the god of chivalry and valor. It doesn't say paladins, and likely won't until we get an actual Greyhawk book. )"Who is worshiped more" almost certainly directly affects their power level (unless Greyhawk says otherwise). An ancient god worshiped by a few villages is likely not nearly as powerful as an upstart worshiped by millions.But you keep complaining when people don't. So what's your endgame?Because you haven't actually shown it to be the case, is why. And that's because it varies from edition to edition.Yes, there can be. Because each edition, and even each book in each edition, has said something different. Some are radically different, some are only a tiny bit different. But there is no single answer that has been true in every edition. Thus, you can find support for any of your claims.Because, as I have said, the books are all different from each other, and they often don't go into any details.Wow, you certainly misread that. The thing is, you're completely dismissing everyone else's evidence if it contradicts yours--which you haven't really even presented. And you're ignoring that this game consists of nothing more than options for people to take, change, or dismiss, not hard and fast rules that must be adhered to.The fact that you saw this as "kowtowing to them" indicates that you have this "me versus them" thing going on, that anything that doesn't support you must be against you. You never considered my actual meaning, which is literally "either that's something that was written in one of the books or you made it up; either way, it's not something I want to use in my games."So then what does it matter to you that other people don't find evil gods redundant?</blockquote>

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