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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8409818" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Then why were you complaining about why I "wanted" to argue with you about this, when you clearly inserted yourself and wanted to argue with me about it? Am I somehow to blame for your own decisions?Because A) Optional Rules are not Homebrew and B) Other editions had other rules, where THE RULES (because we need all that to emphasize the word rules) allowed them to grant spells. Or, at the very least, they made it so close as to be indistinguishable. I know people have loved to point out that the Fiendish Codex says that it is the Abyss granting spells... but as someone else pointed out, one of the rule books put forth that all clerical magic came from the positive or negative planes, and was just shaped by dieties and their proxies, so that doesn't seem like rock solid evidence either.And what, pray tell, is the difference between a follower of a religion and a worshiper? Because that seems like a distinction without a difference.So, AO made Cyric a god because of reasons, then made Kelemvor a god because the Dead said they liked him... and in neither instance then did followers or worshipers (because suddenly there is now a difference, and I note you used followers before) play a role in it, except by voting for one but not the other?Huh, funny, Mirtek says that he didn't even fight Cyric. Just sucker punched him as Cyric ran screaming from the halls because of the actions of gods. A sucker punch that it seems Cyric barely registered. So, I'm becoming less and less convinced.So, it isn't special. All Demon Lords would do this, but only Orcus gets specifically mentioned as definitely having been a mortal. Why?And so did literally every other Demon Lord except Graz'zt and Demogorgon. And do you realize there are likely over a hundred published Demon Lords?</blockquote>

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