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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8409832" data-attributes="member: 23751">Your response indicates that either you aren't listening to me, yourself, or both of us, because it makes no sense with what I have been saying.A) Optional rules are not the default, either, so they can't be used as some sort of proof that the optional rule is going on in the game.&nbsp; You don't get to say, &quot;But if the DM opts into this rule, then gods are redundant so they don't need to be there.&quot;&nbsp; The default is that demons and devils cannot grant spells, so the gods are not redundant.B) Then when you are playing 1e, they can grant spells!&nbsp; Otherwise 1e is irrelevant to whether demons and devils can grant spells in 5e.I see what you did there.&nbsp; How about you not add in &quot;of a religion&quot; and move the goalposts like that?&nbsp; A follower of the demon is just that.&nbsp; A follower of the demon.&nbsp; There need be nothing religious about it.&nbsp; In fact, a follower kinda can't be religious, because if he were a religious follower, he would be called a worshiper.&nbsp; A worshipper on the other hand IS being religious.&nbsp; The distinction is quite profound if you actually follow the words and don't shift the goalposts like that.I don't think Ao had anything to do with Kelemvor, but I don't remember for certain.&nbsp; It might be that Ao has to at least approve the new god behind the scenes, but I've seen nothing to say that.&nbsp; He can certainly demote gods to mortal status and vice versa if he wants to.Why not?&nbsp; They have to write something.There are probably thousands.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 8409832, member: 23751"] Your response indicates that either you aren't listening to me, yourself, or both of us, because it makes no sense with what I have been saying. A) Optional rules are not the default, either, so they can't be used as some sort of proof that the optional rule is going on in the game. You don't get to say, "But if the DM opts into this rule, then gods are redundant so they don't need to be there." The default is that demons and devils cannot grant spells, so the gods are not redundant. B) Then when you are playing 1e, they can grant spells! Otherwise 1e is irrelevant to whether demons and devils can grant spells in 5e. I see what you did there. How about you not add in "of a religion" and move the goalposts like that? A follower of the demon is just that. A follower of the demon. There need be nothing religious about it. In fact, a follower kinda can't be religious, because if he were a religious follower, he would be called a worshiper. A worshipper on the other hand IS being religious. The distinction is quite profound if you actually follow the words and don't shift the goalposts like that. I don't think Ao had anything to do with Kelemvor, but I don't remember for certain. It might be that Ao has to at least approve the new god behind the scenes, but I've seen nothing to say that. He can certainly demote gods to mortal status and vice versa if he wants to. Why not? They have to write something. There are probably thousands. [/QUOTE]

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