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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8410279" data-attributes="member: 42582">Upthread I posted the multiple references from the AD&D MM and PHB that put fiends on a par with gods: the Sahuagin entry, the description of Asmodeus as ruler of the Nine Hells, which - in the PHB - are said to be the home of gods, the entries in the Gate and Shapechange spells, etc.You seem to be just ignoring all that.This is not true. See the material I mentioned just above, and set out in some detail not too far upthread.That same book tells us that the Horned Society is a land of devil-worshippers.No. They are in the Sahuagin entry in the MM. As I have mentioned, now, about half-a-dozen times in this thread.I'm aware of the DMG rule. I've been aware of it since about 1984. Although it does not say that only a demigod can grant 5th level spells. Here is the actual text (DMG p 38):Cleric spells of third, fourth, and fifth level are obtained through the aid of supernatural servants of the cleric's deity. That is, through meditation and prayer, the cleric's needs are understood and the proper spells are given to him or her by the minions of the deity.There is no discussion of demigods on p 38 beyond a reference to "the minions" as "angels, demi-gods, or whatever".If you review my posts upthread, you'll also see that the DMG rule is different, on this point, from the PHB rule (on p 40; it treats 1st to 4th level spells as the DMG treats 1st and 2nd level ones, and treats 5th to 7th level spells as the DMG treats 6th and 7th level ones). Why did Gygax change the rule? Who knows! But the fact that it changed from PHB to DMG suggests that it wasn't something to which Gygax himself was super-wedded or on which he had a firm opinion.The "rule" is one that you have made up by (i) introducing a distinction between 4th and 5th level spells that is arbitrary relative to the DMG rule you cite, and (ii) deciding that Lolth is not a demon but a god! But in D3 and T1 she is described as a Demon Queen/Demoness. In the FF she is under the Demon entry. (Though as [USER=2209]@Voadam[/USER] has pointed out, she has "Lesser Goddess" next to her name in brackets.)This is all your imagination at work. Nothing in the texts suggests that it's the case.Of course you're allowed to imagine whatever you want - that's part of the point of the game! But the fact that you can conjecture a way of reconciling the Horned Society as devil-worshippers with an inability of devils to grant spells, which puts Hextor at the centre of things, doesn't mean that is what the book says.My interpretation, which is equally supported by both the Sahuagin entry in the MM, the description of the Horned Society in the GH Folio/boxed set, Ed Greenwood's article in Dragon 91, and later on seemingly confirmed by the scenario in the City of GH boxed set, has been that the Horned Society are devil worshippers and hence include in their ranks anti-clerics, including evil high priests, who get spells from Asmodeus and other devils.</blockquote>

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