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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 8410325" data-attributes="member: 6855114">And if you re-read what I have written,  you will see that I did not contest the devil worshipping stuff. In fact, these can access 4th level spells with the "interpretation " that I wrote that goes exactly in the way you are describing. So even if Sahuagins worship devils and ixixcha... ixixtcha... the devil manta rays worship demongorgon they can still cast spells of 4th level or less which is in accordance to their entry in the MM. And being a rival of a god does not make you one. It just means that you are opposing them and you think that you are on par with them. A lot of boxers thought they could rival with Mike Tyson and we know how they ended up...As for arbitrarily differentiating 4th and 5th level spells. Since you like to cite DDG, which you keep insisting on since it allows fiends to lesser gods, then read the specifications in there. 5th levels spells are only granted by demi gods or higher.  Tjis was to clarify the rule and this was clarified in a dragon article too (which I would need to find but I do not have access to these right now) as in the rules, it is stated but not clear enough and could lead some DM to not male the distinction. So if you add, the DDG I can opt not to consider the archfiends to be gods as the wording say and 5th level spells are distinct in acquisition as per both DMG and DDG. You claimed that this is my imagination for Hextor,  but his alliance with devil is well know and right there in his description. If you add the From the Ashes box set and the Ivid the Undying reference book, it is confirmed even more.As for Lolth, why do you think I considered her a goddess? It was written in her description right from the beginning.What I contest is not that these can not have clerics, it is the power they can get. They are limited to 4th level spells or less. If you take care to read, you will see that none of these races ever have clerics higher than 8th level. In fact the more I read, the more I am convinced that with such limitations on their clerics, the more more I am convinced that fiend worshipping is fringed at best. Especially when even the weaker gods can effectively raise dead and not your "religion".I believe e that the DDG brought the distinction to be on par with what the various clerics of fiends were able to get in the MM. The fact that the deification of some Archdevils and some other fiends was viewed as optional by a lot explains the clarification made in the DDG.So yep, fiends can have clerics, but their church is weak and small as their clerics are pretty limited compared to what clerics of true gods can achieve.</blockquote>

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