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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8410729" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Then I am curious why you declared "That's between you and him.  I'm not sure why you want to argue with me about it." when the question of why the discussion that was being had was being had. That seems to have plenty to do with where the conversation started, since that is what I was talking about immediately before you said this.We assume optional rules all the time. And since our discussion is more about the general, then demonstrating that the rules were not only perfectly fine with, but had sections to continue utilizing Archfiends as basically gods is relevant.And by RAW a Cultist who worships a Elemental Prince, Demon Lord or Archdevil has clerical magic. Also, that wuote has some interesting phrasing doesn't it? Between the mortal world and "the distant planes of the gods". Not the gods themselves, but their planes. Where does the Goddess Tiamat reside? The Nine Hells. Where does the Goddess Lolth reside? The Abyss. And I'm sure we can track down many, many more. So, we don't need gods to have clerics, per that quote you just gave. It is their planes that they are acting as intermediaries to.Well, I guess that depends. How many have joined a cult in her name and worship at a shrine with her image? People from the Cult of Orcus do that, and the Cult of Graz'zt and the Cult of Mammon and the Cult of Fiernia. These are all real religious organizations in DnD. So, your "especially when it comes to fiends" is a bit disengenious, because they ARE worshiped as religious idols.I've read the lists. They are quite extensive, and I'm sure they are not comprehensive for all of DnD ever published.</blockquote>

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