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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Faolyn" data-source="post: 8415622" data-attributes="member: 6915329">If the only definition of "god" you have is "gives other people powers," then sure. Everything's a god.If there are other abilities that one group has that the other doesn't... it still wouldn't actually matter to you, because you're convinced they're the same because you can just make stuff up. It's strange. You demand that I stick to canon, but you feel free to make up whatever you want.You're the one convinced that one god can pretend to be another one to gain power or to corrupt a church. That archfiends weren't alone in being willing to do that. So you tell me.I'll get you started. Gloopy appears in the dreams of a high-ranking priest and dictates new holy writ, or begins to seed the church with his own followers. This allows Gloopy to subtly rewrite holy writ to include phrases that would send prayer-energy Gloopy's way, or to create fictional saints or angels that you can pray to as an intermediary, but the prayers would go to Gloopy instead of Pistil. You do this slowly over the course of decades or centuries, each time altering Pistil's religion a little bit more, and Gloopy can eventually just claim the whole thing for himself.First off, yes, every god has had specific rituals. At least, every god that's had detailed info written on it has, and it was always assumed that your cleric would be performing these rituals. Do you really think that every cleric says the same prayers and makes the same motions, regardless of the god they worship?Also, how many of these splinter groups are sects where each sect worships the same god in a different manner, and how many are actually formed around different beings?Sigh. The universe didn't rewrite itself. Nothing I wrote implied that. A greater deity would be able to tell something is up. Is there a god of truth or reality or vision? They'd see through it. Does Pistil--or Gloopy--have a superior? That god would be likely be able to see through it. Gloopy's superior would also likely not be happy, because this could mean that Gloopy is coming after them next.You really think gods won't punish Gloopy retroactively? Won't be angry that Gloopy tried to get too big for his britches and think above his station? That he killed another god? There is absolutely zero reason to think that the gods of any D&D world care one iota abut <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_7_of_the_European_Convention_on_Human_Rights" target="_blank">Article 7 of the European Convention on Human Rights</a>. Of course they'd punish Gloopy, and probably stick his head on the wall of the divine conference room as a warning to the other gods. Or to laugh at his audacity.And if Gloopy is an evil god, or at least hangs out with them a lot? Evil guys are always killing lessers who think themselves too clever. Evil gods are the same. I'm sure that's one of things on the Evil Overlord list.Edit: I'm going to add this bit--while it's not RAW, it's often assumed that the gods have some sort of treaty with each other. They won't mess with each other's worshipers or territory directly; they can maybe send clerics, but can't actually do anything on their own. So here, Gloopy would be in violation of a major godly edict. Order of the Stick uses this idea (and does so in a serious manner). But it's also assumed that archthings aren't bound by this sort of treaty. The problem, I think, is you're looking for mechanical differences only, even though most of the really important differences aren't mechanical at all.Sigh. Actually, you have, multiple times. Including in this post.Prove it. Prove that it's more difficult for everyone to write. We know it's more difficult for you to write, you've said so. But for me? For other people? Prove it. In fact, prove there's a universal definition of "write well" while you're at it.It's not true. It's your opinion. Opinions are not facts.Again, harder for you.So? None of this changes the fact that she was imprisoned in the 5e adventure and her cultists wanted to bring her bodily into the Prime.<a href="https://twitter.com/ChrisPerkinsDnD/status/844726037204238336" target="_blank">You fight her</a>. In the adventure, her statblock is labled "Tiamat." Not "avatar of" or "aspect of." Her. The adventure repeatedly says that the Red Wizards are bringing her into the Prime. One sentence says "As should be clear from her statistics in appendix d, Tiamat is a god." A quick search of the adventure shows no instances of the word "avatar."Yes, she's listed as a fiend because they don't have a monster type for "god" and it was either that or celestial (empyreans are also listed as celestials, even though they're at least quasi-gods).OK, here goes: He isn't a god.The end.I don't need to defend how I would run a demon prince in one of my games. Why would you insist on that? Do you go around insisting everyone defend every choice they make when they run a game?Also, every single places he's described calls him a demon prince: that <a href="http://www.succubus.net/wiki/Yeenoghu" target="_blank">4e page you linked</a>, the <a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Yeenoghu" target="_blank">FR wiki</a>, Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes, on <a href="https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/yeenoghu-demon-prince-gnolls" target="_blank">WotC's own website</a>... In every single book but one, he's listed as a demon prince. At this point, if you think he's a god, you need to support your claim. Hell, according to the site you linked, Yeenoghu doesn't even grant spells--Erythnul does it for him!You mean like you do with everything, when you have made the assumption that evil gods and fiends are the same and have changed the evidence to support that?Also, no, I'm not doing anything backwards because it's a game. I can do anything I want with these fictional characters in any way I wanted to. If I wanted to make Yeenoghu into some sort of super-deformed chibi who's actually a girl who rides a rainbow unicorn, I could. I don't need proof of anything for my game.Nope. They point to him being an entity that can grant spellcasting abilities. Unless, again, you assume anything that can grant spellcasting abilities is a god. In which case... you've started at that assumption. Now provide evidence.You are trying to force other people, including me, into accepting your opinion as fact. If you stated that, in your opinion, gods and archthings were redundant, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. But instead, you're demanding that I provide proof before I can run my game the way I want to.Who does that? Are... are you a that guy? Do you get annoyed when the DM decides that goblins have 12 hit points and not 7?Sigh. Again, people in this thread have posted many, many differences between gods and archthings. Since you refuse to believe that they are different things, you refuse to accept the differences. The differences exist whether you like it or not.</blockquote>

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