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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8416565" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Let's go with Zaiden, the Gnoll Priestess from Dragon #364: Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Yeenoghu as a start of an explicit spellcaster that uses clerical spells. I don't know if that issue was during 5e or not, but it is the first result that came up.We can also remind you that, yes, while some cultists don't have spells, some Cult Fanatics do have clerical spells. And we have the various rituals, such as the creation of the witherlings.Nope. Small following, Greater God. And "disease is a part of life" doesn't explain anything. Tyrnnical rulers and oppression were also very large parts of medieval life for many people. Yet, somehow, this means that the followers of Iuz aren't real worshipers, but the guy spreading disease panic and death is getting true worship? The more you dig, the more this just seems like special pleading over and over again.Do you have any proof that after 90 years of indoctrination almost no one in the Empire worships him? Caesar (both of them) were worshipped as gods and they didn't have 90 years of building their reputation and powers. Also, Julius Caesar popularized the idea that Tyrants are bad. In fact, that was the narrative around him being assassinated, and people STILL worshiped him as a god.Dude, I'm going to say two things. One, if you aren't aware, I can save you a rude awakening if you just take my word for it. Indoctrination is far far worse than you seem to think. Two, if you don't want to take my word for it, start looking up people like Jim Jones, Charles Manson, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, Marshall Applewhite, Shoko Asahara, and many, many, many others. Temporary set backs, imprisonment, none of it shakes these people's believers. You truly seem to not understand the horrors that have been perpetuated by people who were indoctrinated for a scant few years. And Iuz has had four generations of people to work over. It it trivially easy to believe that most of them truly believe he is a god.So, zero from the PHB. And you want to reference the Sword Coast book, which wasn't even written by WoTC, but was written by Green Ronin. Additionally, some of these are... suspect I'll say. Jergal for instance was a Greater Deity and I don't know how much of him being listed as a Demigod is him being weaker than he was, and how much of it is him just not caring about anything.According to the wiki's Hoar is now a God. Gwaeron Windstrom is a Lesser Diety. The Red Knight in the Sword Coast is referred to in the first sentence of her entry like so: "The Red Knight is the goddess of planning and strategy." and never once is she listed as a demigod in that book. In fact, they talk about how her worship has greatly expanded in recent years. Actually, that pattern continues with all of them. In the multiple paragraph entries later in the book, not a single one of these beings are referred to as Demigods, all of them are referred to as gods and deities. The only one I can't confirm is Valkur, who is barely mentioned in the book at all. But still, consistently referred to as a "hero-god" not as a Demigod. In fact, the only mention of the word "demigod" in the entire book is this: So, we have a book whose authorship is shaky, and that never once refers to a single one of these dieties as Demigods, and in fact, consistently refers to them as gods and makes no mention of them being particularly weak. At worst they are seen as serving other gods, and since those gods are Greater Deities, then it is easy to see this as them being Lesser Deities. Especially since they can answer prayers and grant clerical spells, things that 5e says Demigods can't do. So, it seems to me, that they redefined "demigod" in 5e, and promoted almost all of the previous demigods to full god status.</blockquote>

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