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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8433598" data-attributes="member: 6801228">I said that vigilance is an important part of the Twilight domain. You have said no, vigilance is just a part of the twilight domain in this one instance, Twilight isn't the vigilance domain. That really does seem to be a distinction with no purpose beyond obfuscation.And where is that stated? Because there are non-human worshipers of Helm, and he is worshiped by "Guards and Paladins" nothing being stated about him being human only. Look, I get that in practice Helm should be a human god, but AS WRITTEN that is not how he is presented. None of them are. This is one of the issues I have with the religions presented in Core DnD, there are basically no expressly stated human gods in the major lists of popular gods.I did see a pattern. Gods of vigilance not getting a domain associated with gods of vigiliance. You are the one who tried to make this about darkvision. Because, last I check, Halflings don't have Darkvision, yet I included Arvoreen - Halfling Goddess of Vigilance on the list. Additionally, this isn't "the Domain of Darkvision" it is the Twilight domain, and it has more involved with it than darkvision.And here we get to the ACTUAL point. The reason that these gods I listed don't get that domain is because the list is only examples, only suggestions. They expect people to be able to put the domains where they make the most sense. Though, if you actually pay attention to the given list, you'd find that you are... sadly off-base about who would and wouldn't get the domain. For example, You say "not much twilight underground" to dismiss the dwarves getting the Twilight domain. I've never seen the twilight domain as "any non-dwarf cleric" so I'm pretty sure that has no basis in the rules, but you know what else doesn't tend to happen underground? Light or Storms. There are two dwarven gods of Light and a Dwarven God of Storms, with the Light and Tempest domains respectively. You know, those famous underground thunderstorms. Additionally, you would say no community gods get Twilight? Yet I've repeatedly mentioned Boldrei who gets the Twilight domain. Mishakal the goddess of Healing gets it too. As does Yondalla the general Halfling Goddess. But, you don't really care about that stuff, because you've planted your flag. This is the DM's decision. All the stuff we are talking about is actually reasonable and allowed and expected... but it is the DMs decision to create these connections. But, let me ask you this Max... why does the DM get say in how my character worships? Beyond that, what possible reason would they have to tell someone "your religious idea isn't good enough for my table, I reject it" We've somehow circled right into a claim that the DM gets to decide everything, and therefore the player can't do anything without express permission. Which is a rather bizarre thing to run into AGAIN on a topic that really has little to do with the DM.But how am I supposed to represent an evil cleric who has stolen secrets of nature for a foul purpose by worshipping a nature god? Then I didn't actually steal any secrets. It sinks the entire concept, for no reason other than you want these loosely defined domains to be strict laws.</blockquote>

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