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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8434700" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>I'm a little confused, how is a 1st level party defintively getting a list of every sheriff in every village in the entire world, but a higher level one isn't? Do you make different types of worlds? </p><p></p><p>Or, were you misreading my question and only assuming sherrifs for like one or two villages?</p><p></p><p>In fact, looking at your answer to #2 it seems very likely that's exactly what you did. Because "region" shouldn't matter. Every noble family is every noble family. The ones who lost their fortune and have been forgotten, the ones three kingdoms over, ALL of them. After all, the DM has total and complete control over world-building and I must ask permission to use anything they have built and build nothing myself. So, if I want to play a Noble character, who could be of any race or level of wealth, then you need to have created them. </p><p></p><p>I mean, let's take the cults just super fast. I'm going to make a lot of assumptions, but using only the core books. For cults we can have 11 demonic cults for named demon Lords, 15 for Archdevils, we'll say one each for the four elements, 6 for the fey, 5 for the Great Old Ones, and then at least one cult each for each domain if we have a 1 domain per god set up, which is another 8. Which means at a bare minimum you would have to provide your player with a list of 49 cult organizations let's round up to 50 because Medusa form cults before they are created, and at least eight churches. Likely more, because there is rarely a single schism in religious organizations. </p><p></p><p>So, JUST for the acolyte you would need around 58 organizations made ahead of time. That seems unreasonable to me, but you said "Yes, I do that" so you have created everything that can exist, according to the core book, for any player to play... and after making that much you are going to find a player who has an idea they are excited about that you didn't think of. Because of course you are.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And yet you refuse to give reasons. You actively push back and have based your entire defense on "because I'm the DM" and seem almost offended at times when I say "being the DM isn't a reason." </p><p></p><p>If you have a reason, let's discuss that. If your entire point is that you MIGHT have a reason to deny their character... well, duh. Of course there is always a theoretical reason to deny something. But generally denying it isn't the only solution. Of course, pushing for something other than "I'm the DM and I said" generally gets me labeled as entitled, because I advocate for things I want and don't just kowtow to "Because I said" as a reason. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>How is this about "changing the approach" or the campaign type? IF we all agree to play a thieve's guild, then is myself playing a trickery cleric somehow breaking that agreement? He's still part of the thieves guild, and we didn't say we were all playing rogues. </p><p></p><p>And, if we are all playing rogues... I can still be an acolyte who was raised in a splinter cult and turned to a life of crime. That doesn't impact the agreement either. </p><p></p><p>And if we are at the point where the entire part gets to vote on my race, class and background... why does that need to be a group decision? It isn't that I'm not assuming good faith, it just seems to me that what you are demanding goes so far beyond normal play that I'm left scratching my head.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, other than an example that I never gave, you have not once talked about what ideas I've had that you find "ludicrous". How am I supposed to assume good faith on your part when you just keep making blanket accusations, then when I pull one of those "ludicrous" ideas out... you accuse me of bait and switching you because that idea is actually reasonable, unlike all my others... which included that idea. </p><p></p><p>Sure, maybe the vecna idea is unreasonable, but the point of that discussion is that the only argument Max can muster against it is "that isn't how the game works" which is a pretty weak argument. It isn't like how or who the character worships isn't just fluff. There are no mechanics involved in it. But most of the rest of my proposals you've dismissed out of hand with no reasoning that makes any sense.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8434700, member: 6801228"] I'm a little confused, how is a 1st level party defintively getting a list of every sheriff in every village in the entire world, but a higher level one isn't? Do you make different types of worlds? Or, were you misreading my question and only assuming sherrifs for like one or two villages? In fact, looking at your answer to #2 it seems very likely that's exactly what you did. Because "region" shouldn't matter. Every noble family is every noble family. The ones who lost their fortune and have been forgotten, the ones three kingdoms over, ALL of them. After all, the DM has total and complete control over world-building and I must ask permission to use anything they have built and build nothing myself. So, if I want to play a Noble character, who could be of any race or level of wealth, then you need to have created them. I mean, let's take the cults just super fast. I'm going to make a lot of assumptions, but using only the core books. For cults we can have 11 demonic cults for named demon Lords, 15 for Archdevils, we'll say one each for the four elements, 6 for the fey, 5 for the Great Old Ones, and then at least one cult each for each domain if we have a 1 domain per god set up, which is another 8. Which means at a bare minimum you would have to provide your player with a list of 49 cult organizations let's round up to 50 because Medusa form cults before they are created, and at least eight churches. Likely more, because there is rarely a single schism in religious organizations. So, JUST for the acolyte you would need around 58 organizations made ahead of time. That seems unreasonable to me, but you said "Yes, I do that" so you have created everything that can exist, according to the core book, for any player to play... and after making that much you are going to find a player who has an idea they are excited about that you didn't think of. Because of course you are. And yet you refuse to give reasons. You actively push back and have based your entire defense on "because I'm the DM" and seem almost offended at times when I say "being the DM isn't a reason." If you have a reason, let's discuss that. If your entire point is that you MIGHT have a reason to deny their character... well, duh. Of course there is always a theoretical reason to deny something. But generally denying it isn't the only solution. Of course, pushing for something other than "I'm the DM and I said" generally gets me labeled as entitled, because I advocate for things I want and don't just kowtow to "Because I said" as a reason. How is this about "changing the approach" or the campaign type? IF we all agree to play a thieve's guild, then is myself playing a trickery cleric somehow breaking that agreement? He's still part of the thieves guild, and we didn't say we were all playing rogues. And, if we are all playing rogues... I can still be an acolyte who was raised in a splinter cult and turned to a life of crime. That doesn't impact the agreement either. And if we are at the point where the entire part gets to vote on my race, class and background... why does that need to be a group decision? It isn't that I'm not assuming good faith, it just seems to me that what you are demanding goes so far beyond normal play that I'm left scratching my head. Well, other than an example that I never gave, you have not once talked about what ideas I've had that you find "ludicrous". How am I supposed to assume good faith on your part when you just keep making blanket accusations, then when I pull one of those "ludicrous" ideas out... you accuse me of bait and switching you because that idea is actually reasonable, unlike all my others... which included that idea. Sure, maybe the vecna idea is unreasonable, but the point of that discussion is that the only argument Max can muster against it is "that isn't how the game works" which is a pretty weak argument. It isn't like how or who the character worships isn't just fluff. There are no mechanics involved in it. But most of the rest of my proposals you've dismissed out of hand with no reasoning that makes any sense. [/QUOTE]
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